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I'm an existing typescript user but I just can't see a reason to use Deno. Depending on the NPM repository CDN is less worrisome than depending n different CDN

I'm an existing typescript user but I just can't see a reason to use Deno. Depending on the NPM repository CDN is less worrisome than depending n different CDNs. Including all my dependencies unilaterally (aka deps.ts) seems like a patch upon a bad decision. Making the server side runtime environment pretend to be or adopt aspects of the web browser client environment seems like a misguided direction in my wisdom, because it compromises the whole runtime and you it'll always eventually fall short, as everything that copies does. With everything going toward serverless, support there is essential and Deno just doesn't have it. Lack of backward compatibility with other libraries means an uphill struggle, likely resulting in a lot of ported and unmaintained packages. I sense that Deno is primarily being pushed by developers who cut their teeth in React-based code camps who are looking for (understandably) a wave to ride into "full stack" software development. For all these reasons, I regard Deno as dubious for now. I say all of this narrowly through my own experience and perception.

azangru 5y ago
> I sense that Deno is primarily being pushed by developers who cut their teeth in React-based code camps who are looking for (understandably) a wave to ride into "full stack" software development. This is a really strange take. Deno isn't significantly easier to work with than Node, so it shouldn't matter much for a React code camp graduate which of those two to ride into full stack. Deno is more appealing to seasoned web developers, who appreciate its conformity to modern web standards, the absence of Node quirks, and a better security. Example: discussion of Deno by two Google developer relations engineers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYkzk_j3yb0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYkzk_j3yb0
- k__ 5y ago
  "This is a really strange take." No, this is the gatekeeping mentality of many people software development. It's also wrong, since Deno removes many idiosyncrasies about server-side JavaScript.
  - beaker52 5y ago
    > No, this is the gatekeeping mentality of many people software development. I sense that I've touched a nerve and I'm sorry for that. May I ask what you believe I'm gatekeeping? > It's also wrong, since Deno removes many idiosyncrasies about server-side JavaScript. Could you offer some examples, so that I can learn? I would agree with your statement that Deno removes idiosyncrasies of server-side JavaScript, but that's when viewed from a front-end-first perspective (ie. the predominant and perfectly reasonable perspective of code camp graduates that I've worked with).
    - k__ 5y ago
      "Deno is primarily being pushed by developers who cut their teeth in React-based code camps who are looking for (understandably) a wave to ride into "full stack" software development" That sounded a bit like the "imigrants stealing our jobs" argument. "Deno removes idiosyncrasies of server-side JavaScript, but that's when viewed from a front-end-first perspective" Not just the frontend perspective, but also the ECMAScript perspective, in which even Node.js creators participate.
      - beaker52 5y ago
        > That sounded a bit like the "imigrants stealing our jobs" argument. I see that, thank you. Perhaps it would have helped if I'd added the word "experience" to the end. I sense that Deno is primarily being pushed by developers who [graduated from] React-based code camps who are (understandably) looking for a wave to ride [toward] "full stack" software development [experience]. > but also the ECMAScript perspective, in which even Node.js creators participate. Could you point me to concrete examples?
- beaker52 5y ago
  > This is a really strange take. Deno isn't significantly easier to work with than Node, so it shouldn't matter much for a React code camp graduate which of those two to ride into full stack. It appears you've received this as some sort of afront. Everyone looks for a wave to ride toward the future and riding a wave is not undesirable. The Node wave has broken and is coming to a rest, slowly over time. Deno is a motion to create another. That's the natural order of things and it's okay. > Deno is more appealing to seasoned web developers, who appreciate its conformity to modern web standards, the absence of Node quirks, and a better security. It's interesting isn't it, because I offered my thoughts as someone who could be described as a seasoned web developer - they were just not the same as yours today.
  - azangru 5y ago
    Not an affront; we just seem to have a surprisingly different notion of a React bootcamp graduate. It requires both the respect for web standards and the annoyance with Node's quirks to have an appreciation for Deno, neither of which a recent React bootcamp graduate would have had the time to cultivate. Whereas, since such hypothetical graduate is more likely to be in search of immediate practical in-demand skills, they would be more likely to pick Node over Deno as a much more popular option. Plus, they would be likely to have been exposed to Node during their bootcamp training, by running webpack, create-react-app, and suchlike.

azangru 5y ago

> I sense that Deno is primarily being pushed by developers who cut their teeth in React-based code camps who are looking for (understandably) a wave to ride into "full stack" software development. This is a really strange take. Deno isn't significantly easier to work with than Node, so it shouldn't matter much for a React code camp graduate which of those two to ride into full stack. Deno is more appealing to seasoned web developers, who appreciate its conformity to modern web standards, the absence of Node quirks, and a better security. Example: discussion of Deno by two Google developer relations engineers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYkzk_j3yb0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYkzk_j3yb0

k__ 5y ago
"This is a really strange take." No, this is the gatekeeping mentality of many people software development. It's also wrong, since Deno removes many idiosyncrasies about server-side JavaScript.
- beaker52 5y ago
  > No, this is the gatekeeping mentality of many people software development. I sense that I've touched a nerve and I'm sorry for that. May I ask what you believe I'm gatekeeping? > It's also wrong, since Deno removes many idiosyncrasies about server-side JavaScript. Could you offer some examples, so that I can learn? I would agree with your statement that Deno removes idiosyncrasies of server-side JavaScript, but that's when viewed from a front-end-first perspective (ie. the predominant and perfectly reasonable perspective of code camp graduates that I've worked with).
  - k__ 5y ago
    "Deno is primarily being pushed by developers who cut their teeth in React-based code camps who are looking for (understandably) a wave to ride into "full stack" software development" That sounded a bit like the "imigrants stealing our jobs" argument. "Deno removes idiosyncrasies of server-side JavaScript, but that's when viewed from a front-end-first perspective" Not just the frontend perspective, but also the ECMAScript perspective, in which even Node.js creators participate.
    - beaker52 5y ago
      > That sounded a bit like the "imigrants stealing our jobs" argument. I see that, thank you. Perhaps it would have helped if I'd added the word "experience" to the end. I sense that Deno is primarily being pushed by developers who [graduated from] React-based code camps who are (understandably) looking for a wave to ride [toward] "full stack" software development [experience]. > but also the ECMAScript perspective, in which even Node.js creators participate. Could you point me to concrete examples?
beaker52 5y ago
> This is a really strange take. Deno isn't significantly easier to work with than Node, so it shouldn't matter much for a React code camp graduate which of those two to ride into full stack. It appears you've received this as some sort of afront. Everyone looks for a wave to ride toward the future and riding a wave is not undesirable. The Node wave has broken and is coming to a rest, slowly over time. Deno is a motion to create another. That's the natural order of things and it's okay. > Deno is more appealing to seasoned web developers, who appreciate its conformity to modern web standards, the absence of Node quirks, and a better security. It's interesting isn't it, because I offered my thoughts as someone who could be described as a seasoned web developer - they were just not the same as yours today.
- azangru 5y ago
  Not an affront; we just seem to have a surprisingly different notion of a React bootcamp graduate. It requires both the respect for web standards and the annoyance with Node's quirks to have an appreciation for Deno, neither of which a recent React bootcamp graduate would have had the time to cultivate. Whereas, since such hypothetical graduate is more likely to be in search of immediate practical in-demand skills, they would be more likely to pick Node over Deno as a much more popular option. Plus, they would be likely to have been exposed to Node during their bootcamp training, by running webpack, create-react-app, and suchlike.