4 ms·

This is the exception that proves the rule: The whole reason people sit and listen to shaggy dog stories for so long is that they're expecting some sort of sati

by gwd 5y ago

This is the exception that proves the rule: The whole reason people sit and listen to shaggy dog stories for so long is that they're expecting some sort of satisfactory conclusion to the story; and the reason people are (in my experience) typically angry at the teller of the story afterwards is that the implicit promise of a satisfactory conclusion has been purposely broken.

burnished 5y ago
I mean if you're going to try and be all 'on-topic'.. Its important to note that you're making details up in your analogy. It is implicit in your story that the storyteller intended a betrayal of expectations, otherwise the emotional response wouldn't make any sense. It is also a very limited scope of time which is hugely important in how people see abandoning a project. At this point your anecdote and the topic of discussion have nothing to do with each other. It is reasonable to experience disappointment that this story will likely never be concluded. Going past the place of having and owning one's emotions into angry blaming is not reasonable. This is the point of TFA, taking any understandable bad feelings around not getting what you wanted and transmuting them into specific directed grievances or demands is embarrassingly entitled behavior. I don't think this will be controversial to you, but I did want to mark the difference.
- gwd 5y ago
  I think you're reading more into my comment than intended. Someone said, there is an implied promise of a conclusion when you start telling a story. Someone responded, well, that's not true with shaggy dog stories. My response to that person is, on the contrary -- shaggy dog stories are what they are because there is an implicit promise, which they break. That there is an implicit promise was my only point; I didn't mean to comment at all on the situation w/ Game of Thrones. Perhaps "promise" is too strong of a word; "intention"? I certainly don't think Martin, when he started writing Game of Thrones, was planning on leaving his work unfinished. If he had, then he'd certainly deserve some annoyance, just as the teller of shaggy dog stories does. Nor do I even think that Martin got to a certain point and then said, "Welp, I'm rich now, I can just sit back and relax; no need to do that pesky writing stuff any more." And if that was his attitude, then I think he deserves some annoyance. Presumably there's a part of him that would like to finish them off, but finds it difficult for whatever reason. I think that's unfortunate, naturally, but as long as he has, within himself, made a good-faith attempt to move things towards completion, then I think he's held up his end of the bargain. And I agree that the expectation of anything more is toxic entitlement.
  - burnished 5y ago
    I think you're right, I think I phrased that last comment too strongly, I believe we're in complete agreement re GRRM. I was the poster of the shaggy dog story! Side note, I did enjoy you pointing out 'exception that proves the rule'.

by gwd 5y ago

burnished 5y ago

I mean if you're going to try and be all 'on-topic'.. Its important to note that you're making details up in your analogy. It is implicit in your story that the storyteller intended a betrayal of expectations, otherwise the emotional response wouldn't make any sense. It is also a very limited scope of time which is hugely important in how people see abandoning a project. At this point your anecdote and the topic of discussion have nothing to do with each other. It is reasonable to experience disappointment that this story will likely never be concluded. Going past the place of having and owning one's emotions into angry blaming is not reasonable. This is the point of TFA, taking any understandable bad feelings around not getting what you wanted and transmuting them into specific directed grievances or demands is embarrassingly entitled behavior. I don't think this will be controversial to you, but I did want to mark the difference.

gwd 5y ago
I think you're reading more into my comment than intended. Someone said, there is an implied promise of a conclusion when you start telling a story. Someone responded, well, that's not true with shaggy dog stories. My response to that person is, on the contrary -- shaggy dog stories are what they are because there is an implicit promise, which they break. That there is an implicit promise was my only point; I didn't mean to comment at all on the situation w/ Game of Thrones. Perhaps "promise" is too strong of a word; "intention"? I certainly don't think Martin, when he started writing Game of Thrones, was planning on leaving his work unfinished. If he had, then he'd certainly deserve some annoyance, just as the teller of shaggy dog stories does. Nor do I even think that Martin got to a certain point and then said, "Welp, I'm rich now, I can just sit back and relax; no need to do that pesky writing stuff any more." And if that was his attitude, then I think he deserves some annoyance. Presumably there's a part of him that would like to finish them off, but finds it difficult for whatever reason. I think that's unfortunate, naturally, but as long as he has, within himself, made a good-faith attempt to move things towards completion, then I think he's held up his end of the bargain. And I agree that the expectation of anything more is toxic entitlement.
- burnished 5y ago
  I think you're right, I think I phrased that last comment too strongly, I believe we're in complete agreement re GRRM. I was the poster of the shaggy dog story! Side note, I did enjoy you pointing out 'exception that proves the rule'.