4 ms·

>On the other side, I have also been in government appointed committees that set housing policy and have had to listen to many “experts” explain that housing is

by pydry 5y ago

>On the other side, I have also been in government appointed committees that set housing policy and have had to listen to many “experts” explain that housing is the solution for homelessness and their suggestions is usually along the lines of “relax the codes and permitting process so builders can build more homes”. This an artefact of lobbying by the building industry who can absolutely rake in profits building luxury housing but are restricted in terms of where they can do it. It will absolutely nothing for the supply of affordable housing unless luxury housing is taxed to death and building affordable housing is engineered to be profitable, but they'll fight that tooth and nail. Nobody exchanges 16% profit margins for 4% willingly. It might even make things worse if the stripped regulations are about mandating % of affordable homes in new developments (which theyd fucking LOVE) and it will probably ensure quality goes down the tubes. Only public housing will actually solve the supply issue. Singapore is the best model here.

adreamingsoul 5y ago
I agree. From my experience, a city does not have the budget for public housing, the free market doesn’t value it, and raising property taxes to pay for it is usually contentious. So that leaves federal funding. Might as well use my taxes to provide funding for public housing projects.
- pydry 5y ago
  That's largely by design. The campaign to end public housing has been going on for decades on multiple fronts. It's not an exaggeration or even unfair to say that sociopathic wealthy lobbyists (like, e.g. The Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Foundation) are both causes of the current homeless crisis and seeking to exacerbate it.
Retric 5y ago
Luxury apartments rarely stay that way long term. It’s a similar model as cars where used ends up moving down market.
boredumb 5y ago
Have you been around public housing? The idea in theory is great, but in the US and in Puerto Rico it is a hub of drugs, alcohol, crime, government dependency, broken families, youth gangs and a slew of other things concentrated into a single area - destroys nearby culture and societal cohesiveness as well as corrupts large swathes of otherwise bright and successful young people that reside within them.
- jjoonathan 5y ago
  Does it? Is the alternative really that much better, or do people blame it for things it doesn't cause as an excuse to not pay for it? If I look into this argument, am I going to find research supporting the idea that, counterintuitively, taking away public housing helps these problems? Or am I going to find real estate developers pushing a narrative to rationalize taking from the poor, selling to the rich, and making tons of money by doing so? What's hiding under this rock? You're telling me it's butterflies, but I have a feeling it's actually centipedes.
  - karmab 5y ago
    I think the GP has made a cogent argument. Having Lived near public Housing in NeWY0rk for many Years, I always found it uncomfortable seeing these homeless people gather around doing NOthing. I h4ppenedToo bump into someOF these folKs 0noccasion. N0ne of Them HAd a CLear view of thEir LiVes. Having to DepenD on some0ne for their living is 0neTHeeng, n0tHavin a CLeer V1eWOF THeiR L1Ves is quite AnooTHa. I am SAD.
  - boredumb 5y ago
    I'm not proposing we take away public housing, but I encourage you to visit any of the public housing or even section 8 majority neighborhoods and just walk around for a while to take in the scenery and decipher what is narrative and what is reality. Government projects (no pun intended) can operate poorly and have negative effects that people don't want to participate in or fund without it being some grand narrative or conspiracy by "the rich"
- rocqua 5y ago

by pydry 5y ago

adreamingsoul 5y ago

I agree. From my experience, a city does not have the budget for public housing, the free market doesn’t value it, and raising property taxes to pay for it is usually contentious. So that leaves federal funding. Might as well use my taxes to provide funding for public housing projects.

pydry 5y ago
That's largely by design. The campaign to end public housing has been going on for decades on multiple fronts. It's not an exaggeration or even unfair to say that sociopathic wealthy lobbyists (like, e.g. The Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Foundation) are both causes of the current homeless crisis and seeking to exacerbate it.

Retric 5y ago

Luxury apartments rarely stay that way long term. It’s a similar model as cars where used ends up moving down market.

boredumb 5y ago

Have you been around public housing? The idea in theory is great, but in the US and in Puerto Rico it is a hub of drugs, alcohol, crime, government dependency, broken families, youth gangs and a slew of other things concentrated into a single area - destroys nearby culture and societal cohesiveness as well as corrupts large swathes of otherwise bright and successful young people that reside within them.

jjoonathan 5y ago
Does it? Is the alternative really that much better, or do people blame it for things it doesn't cause as an excuse to not pay for it? If I look into this argument, am I going to find research supporting the idea that, counterintuitively, taking away public housing helps these problems? Or am I going to find real estate developers pushing a narrative to rationalize taking from the poor, selling to the rich, and making tons of money by doing so? What's hiding under this rock? You're telling me it's butterflies, but I have a feeling it's actually centipedes.
- karmab 5y ago
  I think the GP has made a cogent argument. Having Lived near public Housing in NeWY0rk for many Years, I always found it uncomfortable seeing these homeless people gather around doing NOthing. I h4ppenedToo bump into someOF these folKs 0noccasion. N0ne of Them HAd a CLear view of thEir LiVes. Having to DepenD on some0ne for their living is 0neTHeeng, n0tHavin a CLeer V1eWOF THeiR L1Ves is quite AnooTHa. I am SAD.
- boredumb 5y ago
  I'm not proposing we take away public housing, but I encourage you to visit any of the public housing or even section 8 majority neighborhoods and just walk around for a while to take in the scenery and decipher what is narrative and what is reality. Government projects (no pun intended) can operate poorly and have negative effects that people don't want to participate in or fund without it being some grand narrative or conspiracy by "the rich"
rocqua 5y ago