5 ms·

I don't agree with Gaiman here. His basic argument is that the contract is you paid $10 for each book you got, so the author doesn't owe you the next book. I

I don't agree with Gaiman here. His basic argument is that the contract is you paid $10 for each book you got, so the author doesn't owe you the next book. I disagree with this. First off, the fact that the fans are so upset is evidence that this wasn't _their_ understanding of the contract. The thing is, they didn't just spend $10. They spent time getting invested in the story. This emotional investment is left unfulfilled if they don't get the implicitly promised ending. Now, let's turn this around. Let's say fans do decide that their $10 strictly comes with no expectation of the next book coming. Well then many fans wouldn't have bought the first books until the whole series is finished. It would likely become uneconomical to write long fantasy series. Writers like Martin would suffer. It's easy for Martin or whoever to drop the ball on the implicit contract now, after becoming rich; but if this contract hadn't existed, authors like Martin would probably have desired to create it explicitly. If you believe that, then Gaiman's argument doesn't hold up. And so not finishing a promised series is taking from that trust commons. Of course, sometimes humans _can't_ finish something, and readers should accept that risk. The authors shouldn't be harassed. But wanting them to follow through is not the same as thinking "they're your bitch".

ubermonkey 5y ago
"Well then many fans wouldn't have bought the first books until the whole series is finished. It would likely become uneconomical to write long fantasy series. Writers like Martin would suffer." This is me. I don't buy into a series until it's complete. Actually, I kind of HATE series works, because they are quite often seat-of-the-pants situations where the author really has no idea where it's all going, and has no real plan for sticking the landing. Also quite often they are far, far longer than is justified. I have no issues with long works, but we must be honest and admit that LOTS of series works in genre are just plain FAT and needed to be seriously edited down. But that doesn't happen, because it means they can sell more books.
- falcolas 5y ago
  > Actually, I kind of HATE series works, because they are quite often seat-of-the-pants situations where the author really has no idea where it's all going Often, authors even start a series as a number of stand-alone books with clearly bounded character-and-plot development (think Star Trek), and then later morph it into an overarching-story-plot style series. See: Dresden Files, Kate Daniels, etc.
  - ubermonkey 5y ago
    Dresden is an especially egregious example, since Butcher clearly reached a point a few books in where he just pull unjustified stuff out of his nether regions to push a story along. First couple are fun, though.
    - falcolas 5y ago
      > First couple are fun, though. Amusingly, the first couple are the episodic ones. :D
- pavon 5y ago
  Yeah, in fact these days I often avoid series altogether, even if they are finished, because I know once I start it I'll want to finish, and thus choosing to read a series means choosing not to read a half dozen standalone books. Those standalone books will give me more variety, are likely better quality in total (because even he best series have their ups and downs), and thus will be more enjoyable in whole. There are exceptions where series are greater than the sum of their parts, but I think they are rare.
proctrap 5y ago
Also don't forget that it's easier to never finish the story. To never go actually anywhere with your one idea. You don't have to explain plot holes, backgrounds, conclusions etc. Because "that's to be done in the next book" which never comes out. Fair, but then we simply can't judge anything until you're actually done - and then we may buy your stuff. - Somebody who has never read GoT so isn't part of the fandom.
burnished 5y ago
I'd like to posit that using fans getting emotionally distraught may in fact weaken your argument on the basis that a lot of behaviors that fall into that category are overwrought to the point of lashing out. Gaimans point isn't that you can't feel disappointed, it's that when you try to treat your end of the parasocial relationship as a burden with the direct implication that GRRM directly and personally owes you that you are treating him like your bitch.
wintermutestwin 5y ago
>And so not finishing a promised series is taking from that trust commons. This is the most important point - GRRM is hurting other authors with his failure to deliver on an implicit social contract. How many future authors will not get their first book in a series read enough to justify a second because readers will wait for a series to be finished before putting in the energy to read it?

ubermonkey 5y ago

"Well then many fans wouldn't have bought the first books until the whole series is finished. It would likely become uneconomical to write long fantasy series. Writers like Martin would suffer." This is me. I don't buy into a series until it's complete. Actually, I kind of HATE series works, because they are quite often seat-of-the-pants situations where the author really has no idea where it's all going, and has no real plan for sticking the landing. Also quite often they are far, far longer than is justified. I have no issues with long works, but we must be honest and admit that LOTS of series works in genre are just plain FAT and needed to be seriously edited down. But that doesn't happen, because it means they can sell more books.

falcolas 5y ago
> Actually, I kind of HATE series works, because they are quite often seat-of-the-pants situations where the author really has no idea where it's all going Often, authors even start a series as a number of stand-alone books with clearly bounded character-and-plot development (think Star Trek), and then later morph it into an overarching-story-plot style series. See: Dresden Files, Kate Daniels, etc.
- ubermonkey 5y ago
  Dresden is an especially egregious example, since Butcher clearly reached a point a few books in where he just pull unjustified stuff out of his nether regions to push a story along. First couple are fun, though.
  - falcolas 5y ago
    > First couple are fun, though. Amusingly, the first couple are the episodic ones. :D
pavon 5y ago
Yeah, in fact these days I often avoid series altogether, even if they are finished, because I know once I start it I'll want to finish, and thus choosing to read a series means choosing not to read a half dozen standalone books. Those standalone books will give me more variety, are likely better quality in total (because even he best series have their ups and downs), and thus will be more enjoyable in whole. There are exceptions where series are greater than the sum of their parts, but I think they are rare.

proctrap 5y ago

Also don't forget that it's easier to never finish the story. To never go actually anywhere with your one idea. You don't have to explain plot holes, backgrounds, conclusions etc. Because "that's to be done in the next book" which never comes out. Fair, but then we simply can't judge anything until you're actually done - and then we may buy your stuff. - Somebody who has never read GoT so isn't part of the fandom.

burnished 5y ago

I'd like to posit that using fans getting emotionally distraught may in fact weaken your argument on the basis that a lot of behaviors that fall into that category are overwrought to the point of lashing out. Gaimans point isn't that you can't feel disappointed, it's that when you try to treat your end of the parasocial relationship as a burden with the direct implication that GRRM directly and personally owes you that you are treating him like your bitch.

wintermutestwin 5y ago

>And so not finishing a promised series is taking from that trust commons. This is the most important point - GRRM is hurting other authors with his failure to deliver on an implicit social contract. How many future authors will not get their first book in a series read enough to justify a second because readers will wait for a series to be finished before putting in the energy to read it?