4 ms·

Well, the big one is the clear assumption that any statistically meaningful portion of the poor population is capable of being a developer of any kind. Softwar

by nknight 15y ago

Well, the big one is the clear assumption that any statistically meaningful portion of the poor population is capable of being a developer of any kind. Software developers are less than 1% of the US workforce, and it's sure not because the pay sucks.

ctdonath 15y ago
I referred to myself, not sweeping generality. Under-elaborated point is _anyone_ can find something narrow/unique they can offer[1]. Smart kids can bootstrap a software business from zero. Less-so ones can make stuff or do stuff others want. The comment was an echo of laments that high-tech is too expensive to get into, when the entry to something as high-end as iOS apps is under $1000. (Eternal problem with discussion-board posts is the difficulty of cramming complete coverage of a point into a couple paragraphs.) [1] - Had a girlfriend who was a visiting nurse. She had a bedridden (!) patient with no apparent prospects who still managed to run a, um, pharmaceutical distribution operation from his gurney. While not advocating such extra-legal activities, it did convince me anyone can make a good buck if they put their mind to it.
351215255 15y ago
But they can take up other endeavors but we do have to take into account some things beautifully summarized in this "list of n things"[1]. I know cracked.com is not one of your "serious sites" but this is all from the first hand perspective. [1] http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-things-nobody-tells-you-about-being-poor/ http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-things-nobody-tells-you-about-...
- 351215255 15y ago
  And HN is at it again, downvotes for linking to the site? Or saying "can take up other endeavors" how did this not add to the conversation? This is a first hand article, very very relevant.
  - ctdonath 15y ago
    The linked-to list reiterates the same mistakes some here are trying to counter. It complains about one having to do things which are fundamental to financial success. Examples: "having a checking account while poor doesn't just mean you have to be responsible and good at math -- you have to be perfect. Meticulous, flawless record keeping is the difference between surviving and having the bank seize your next paycheck." Well, yeah. Don't write checks for money you don't have. Duh. "A standard 14-day "payday" loan charges $15.50 per $100 borrowed. ... they offer to extend your loan to 180 days. It makes the payments miniscule. Oh, and you'll be paying back $1,275 at 403.10 percent APR." The offer is there, and you can use or refuse it. If it wasn't there, you wouldn't have the option. Don't like it? pretend it wasn't there. "having no credit will stop you from getting a loan or an apartment just as fast as having bad credit." Some of us have learned that loans & renting are a bad idea. Other opportunities are available - yes, they are available - and will get you farther ahead faster. "making sure to pay your * bills on time." Well, yeah. Plan ahead, and don't sign up for what you can't afford. "Your Next Expensive Disaster is Always Around the Corner" Yup. Plan ahead. Yes, really, you can. "You're Always in Survival Mode" Yes, you are - even when you're sitting comfortably on a nice pile of money in a nice paid for home, there are plenty of things that can go utterly horribly wrong. Be ready. Upshot: author complains bad things X Y & Z happen when he does A B & C. Well, yeah. Don't do A, B, or C, and no you don't have to do them.
    - socillion 15y ago
      >Some of us have learned that loans & renting are a bad idea. Other opportunities are available - yes, they are available - and will get you farther ahead faster. What are those alternatives? Living in a tent under an underpass?
    - orangecat 15y ago
      Well, yeah. Don't write checks for money you don't have. Duh. It's not quite that simple; there are many stories of banks reordering transactions for the sole purpose of generating bogus overdraft fees. That is, you have $50 in your account, deposit $100 at 1PM, and use your debit card for $25 at 2PM and $75 at 3PM. The bank would process them in reverse order, causing an overdraft for the $75 payment, another overdraft for the $25 payment (because the $75 payment took your balance down to zero), and only then apply the deposit (probably leaving you below zero after the fees). I never understood how that wasn't considered blatant fraud. Of course, the simple solution is to use a credit card and pay it off every month. (And in a real emergency, it's better to pay interest on the card than get a payday loan).

by nknight 15y ago

ctdonath 15y ago

I referred to myself, not sweeping generality. Under-elaborated point is _anyone_ can find something narrow/unique they can offer[1]. Smart kids can bootstrap a software business from zero. Less-so ones can make stuff or do stuff others want. The comment was an echo of laments that high-tech is too expensive to get into, when the entry to something as high-end as iOS apps is under $1000. (Eternal problem with discussion-board posts is the difficulty of cramming complete coverage of a point into a couple paragraphs.) [1] - Had a girlfriend who was a visiting nurse. She had a bedridden (!) patient with no apparent prospects who still managed to run a, um, pharmaceutical distribution operation from his gurney. While not advocating such extra-legal activities, it did convince me anyone can make a good buck if they put their mind to it.

351215255 15y ago

But they can take up other endeavors but we do have to take into account some things beautifully summarized in this "list of n things"[1]. I know cracked.com is not one of your "serious sites" but this is all from the first hand perspective. [1] http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-things-nobody-tells-you-about-being-poor/ http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-things-nobody-tells-you-about-...

351215255 15y ago
And HN is at it again, downvotes for linking to the site? Or saying "can take up other endeavors" how did this not add to the conversation? This is a first hand article, very very relevant.
- ctdonath 15y ago
  The linked-to list reiterates the same mistakes some here are trying to counter. It complains about one having to do things which are fundamental to financial success. Examples: "having a checking account while poor doesn't just mean you have to be responsible and good at math -- you have to be perfect. Meticulous, flawless record keeping is the difference between surviving and having the bank seize your next paycheck." Well, yeah. Don't write checks for money you don't have. Duh. "A standard 14-day "payday" loan charges $15.50 per $100 borrowed. ... they offer to extend your loan to 180 days. It makes the payments miniscule. Oh, and you'll be paying back $1,275 at 403.10 percent APR." The offer is there, and you can use or refuse it. If it wasn't there, you wouldn't have the option. Don't like it? pretend it wasn't there. "having no credit will stop you from getting a loan or an apartment just as fast as having bad credit." Some of us have learned that loans & renting are a bad idea. Other opportunities are available - yes, they are available - and will get you farther ahead faster. "making sure to pay your * bills on time." Well, yeah. Plan ahead, and don't sign up for what you can't afford. "Your Next Expensive Disaster is Always Around the Corner" Yup. Plan ahead. Yes, really, you can. "You're Always in Survival Mode" Yes, you are - even when you're sitting comfortably on a nice pile of money in a nice paid for home, there are plenty of things that can go utterly horribly wrong. Be ready. Upshot: author complains bad things X Y & Z happen when he does A B & C. Well, yeah. Don't do A, B, or C, and no you don't have to do them.
  - socillion 15y ago
    >Some of us have learned that loans & renting are a bad idea. Other opportunities are available - yes, they are available - and will get you farther ahead faster. What are those alternatives? Living in a tent under an underpass?
  - orangecat 15y ago
    Well, yeah. Don't write checks for money you don't have. Duh. It's not quite that simple; there are many stories of banks reordering transactions for the sole purpose of generating bogus overdraft fees. That is, you have $50 in your account, deposit $100 at 1PM, and use your debit card for $25 at 2PM and $75 at 3PM. The bank would process them in reverse order, causing an overdraft for the $75 payment, another overdraft for the $25 payment (because the $75 payment took your balance down to zero), and only then apply the deposit (probably leaving you below zero after the fees). I never understood how that wasn't considered blatant fraud. Of course, the simple solution is to use a credit card and pay it off every month. (And in a real emergency, it's better to pay interest on the card than get a payday loan).