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I stopped using Google Analytics when I realized that it doesn't produce any useful actionable data for me. It's just a feel-good thingy, where I watch the page
by jwr 5y ago
I stopped using Google Analytics when I realized that it doesn't produce any useful actionable data for me. It's just a feel-good thingy, where I watch the page view numbers and go "oooh".
Those page view numbers do have a relationship to my business. But it's like measuring traffic on a highway when your store is next to it. The numbers will be somewhat related, but not actionable in any way.
I guess it makes sense if you get paid by page views (ad-supported sites?). But I have a B2B SaaS and I get paid by subscriptions. I rarely care about any of the metrics that GA shows, and I found that many of them are bogus anyway. I could probably wrestle GA into measuring what I need, but why bother, there are easier ways to handle that.
A nice side benefit is that I'm not participating in the global people-tracking business and I'm not subjecting my users/customers to that.
- lgrebe 5y agoWhat are you using for quantitative behavioral data at your B2B SaaS?
- matsemann 5y agoWhat we've done before is just add events in our db, or even just aggregate log data to find what we want in a grafana dashboard or whatever. Much more reliable than GA with them being blocked. And often I don't need the data they add, I care more about how many clicked a button versus how many saw it, and I'm in a better position to track that than Google.
- traceroute66 5y ago> What are you using for quantitative behavioral data at your B2B SaaS? Properly instrumented code allows this as a side-benefit. The main benefit of properly instrumented code being that it makes debugging a breeze.
- jwr 5y agoI track all money-related metrics very precisely (using ProfitWell and spreadsheets). I wrote code for traffic source attribution and used it to find out that my money spent on super-targeted LinkedIn, Facebook and Google ads resulted in precisely $0 revenue, so I stopped advertising and the code is now rusty. I wrote code for A/B testing (this is something you really want to have integrated with your site) using the multi-armed bandit approach and used it to find out that with low traffic of a B2B SaaS it takes months to reach conclusions. That is still sometimes used, but not a whole lot, and only because the multi-armed bandit approach with Thompson sampling is nice enough to prioritize "better" options over time, so you can leave it running safely without baby-sitting it the whole time. Overall the problem with a B2B SaaS is that unless you are already huge, the amount of good actionable data that you can work with is small. It's much better to spend the effort on making a product that people will want to use, e.g. talk to your customers.
- traceroute66 5y ago> A nice side benefit is that I'm not participating in the global people-tracking business and I'm not subjecting my users/customers to that. ^^^ This ! If its free, then you are the product. I'm sure all that analytics data is a veritable goldmine for Google. I pulled Google off all our web properties three years ago (it was originally put there by the web designers) and no amount of blog hype will ever convince me to put it back.
- ardabulut 5y agocheck out https://hockeystack.com https://hockeystack.com: it's an end-to-end analytics platform for B2B SaaS. completely no-code, doesn't require setup, cookieless, and we store our data in EU it allows you to understand what drives revenue and measure the exact MRR you get from a blog post, churned users you get from an ad campaign, etc. here is an example dashboard: https://hockeystack.com/live-demo/dashboard-preview/Content%20Marketing%20Dashboard-dab601487b277274f1ff307354b3ac https://hockeystack.com/live-demo/dashboard-preview/Content%...
- GordonS 5y agoI was interested, but it's quite a jump from zero a month to $99/month.
- ardabulut 5y agototally get that! but it's still 10x cheaper than our competitors :)
- lambda_dn 5y agoThere are many free better solutions out there, being cookieless and in the EU doesn't equal $99 a month. How well would a new cookieless search engine hosted in the EU do charging $99 a month to use when Google/Bing exist?
- ardabulut 5y agothe value prop here is not "being cookieless and hosting in the EU" it's unifying the whole customer journey with no code "while" being cookieless and hosting in the EU I respect your opinion, but please also check out how much tools like Amplitude or Heap cost
- jwr 5y agoI did check it out and it looks really good. As opposed to some other comments, I don't have a problem with pricing (my SaaS is a healthy business and I gladly pay for quality). But using this solution would mean loading third-party JavaScript with third-party trackers. Which for many reasons is a complete non-starter. I'm quite happy to have a site with zero third-party scripts/trackers. So, call me when I can send the events myself from my code :-)
- davidkuennen 5y agoThat is what I noticed for mobile analytics (firebase analytics) as well. It's nice looking at the daily active users and such, but you don't really get any actionable data from it. For me, a much better approach would be my own analytics, tailored to my product using simple sql statements. For example how many of my users are tracking mainly dividends vs tracking their portfolio? To get such data I would have to invest more time into setting the right firebase analytics flags than just creating a BI Dashboard that uses one sql query under the hood.
- ExxKA 5y agoWhat is the service you are building? I am trying to build something similar and would love to compare notes.
- davidkuennen 5y agoI'm building an investment tracking app: https://stockevents.app https://stockevents.app
- ExxKA 5y agoWow, looks good. I am planning to build something similar but with risk/quant analytics that I am familiar with from Capital Markets. I have mostly worked around traders in my day job. I hope you get good traction!
- donclark 5y agoI recently found this - https://beta.getquantbase.com/ https://beta.getquantbase.com/ I have an account but have not invested yet...
- ExxKA 5y agoI am going to build a risk management app, for your stock portfolio. Not a quant fond. Please do not invest your money in a quant fund, all such constructions are based on the assumptions that the market dynamics an be analysed and that they then stay the same for the lifetime of the fund which is very rarely the case.
- AdriaanvRossum 5y agoNext to not actionable data, it baffles me that Google doesn't provide any migration tools for their data. The data structure is quite different, but just saying to all your customers: "We found a better way, everybody, please change now" seems too unfriendly. As the most dominant player in the market, they could do this (and to a certain extent still can). But for how long?
- DocTomoe 5y agoThe lack of data migration may be related to recent EU lawsuits that essentially forced them to delete all data that has been collected without legal reason. I guess it's hard to impossible to separate this data from "clean" data collected outside the EU after several rounds of aggregation. So, clean cut seems like a good idea.
- sdoering 5y agoThe data migration might stem from the fact that the underlying data model is so totally different, that it just might not be possible to migrate anything. GA3 and GA4 are so different, it isn't like the US and Russia, it is Earth and Jupiter (not in terms of impact or size, but just vastly different).
- 2143 5y ago> just vastly different Like a toothbrush and a table. Vastly different.
- jdrc 5y ago> I guess it makes sense if you get paid by page views (ad-supported sites?) I use adsense for that. It counts page views which is what i need. GA seemed to me like something full of marketing buzzwords for which i really really dont care
- moltke 5y ago>Page views Why are people using client side (even more, 3rd party) code for this? The server knows it, you can get it from the logs.
- dbbk 5y agoNot if you're behind an edge cache (which you should be)
- snowwrestler 5y agoSome edge cache providers will give you logs of all requests.
- snowwrestler 5y agoBecause we only care about pages that a client viewed.
- Tenoke 5y agoNot everything is on a server you control (e.g. my blog is on Github pages), and not everything reaches the server with caching. Also it takes less time to setup.
- technobabbler 5y agoYou might serve from a CDN, the CDN might not log at that granularity (at least not visibly to you as an enduser), maybe you want to dedupe refreshes/navigation (sessions), maybe people behind a NAT matter to you (when they share an IP), maybe you want to filter out bot traffic (not trivial), maybe you don't want to have to deal with log rotation and backups or want to install a GUI parser for your marketing people... a whole lot of things that are difficult to implement yourself vs dropping in one 3rd-party script and calling it a day. Google Analytics or its competitors take a few minutes to set up. Recreating that whole stack to feature parity would take forever.
- tootie 5y agoIt depends on the type of business and what you're measuring but it's pretty vital to a lot of companies. If you have a sales funnel or a sophisticated acquisition strategy it's mandatory to track all that or you don't know what strategies are working.
- kjerzyk 5y agoGoogle Analytics has 3 layers: -the vanity metrics anyone can look at - this is what you described. How many pages did they view, how much time did they spend on the page? -users interactions - this requires some skill. You can set up custom tracking to view specific user interactions to answer questions such as: Which page of my sales funnel gets users frustrated and makes them abandon it? -full user journey - this might require using API and user data (instead of page data) where you get to view every single event they did during their visit. This is probably the highest level of GA skill and requires a good setup, but when you get there, you can answer pretty much every question you have about user interactions.
- reactspa 5y agoTwo questions if you'd oblige me: 1) Are the 2nd and 3rd layers free or do they cost? 2) Do you know the official nomenclature of these layer products so that I can google how to implement them? Thank you.
- mgas 5y agoNot OP, but I have experience with the layers they describe. These are not separate Google Analytics products, but levels of implementation of the Google Analytics code. The first level they mention is out-of-the-box, no setup Google Analytics. You install the site code and you get metrics. You don't need to be a developer or have any real skills to accomplish this. It is essentially low-effort, low-return. The 2nd and 3rd layers do not require an investment in Google, but they do require an investment in people. You'll need someone who understands the Google Analytics API, the Measurement Protocol, how the script collects and sorts data, who can install, configure and implement Google Tag Manager, and who has at least an intermediate understanding of HTML/CSS/JS. There is no nomenclature apart from the aspects of Google Analytics I described above, but you can read more about them here: https://developers.google.com/analytics/ https://developers.google.com/analytics/
- sdoering 5y agoNot OP, but in the end it comes down to : 1.: No - but you need people understanding your business and GA as well as being able to implement additional tracking events via Google Tagmager (for example) to be able to answer questions like: What percentage of our users came via paid social media advertising, viewed a product, added it to the shopping cart, but abandoned the checkout. And how many of them are newsletter recipients so that we might be able to send them a reminder, that they have items in their shopping cart. 2.: No official nomenclature - just deeper data analyst's knowledge to ask the business people the right questions, develop an understanding of what to measure, talk to the developers to have them help provide (if necessary) additional info in a dataLayer structure and implement the necessary tracking events in the tagmanager. After that said analyst needs to build the necessary dashboards/reports so that management/business can have the initial questions answered. Data/Web Analytics in a nutshell (and described way reduced).
- Tenoke 5y agoIt might not be useful to you but analytics in general can be useful - e.g. finding out which page gets more traffic or which has a low retention rate. If there's more users on mobile on one site maybe it's worth it to optimize the site for mobile more. Things like that.
- jwr 5y agoI honestly don't care which page gets more traffic — I don't get paid for traffic to web pages. I get paid by customers who subscribe and pay for using my software because it brings them value (continuously). The usual story is that I should care about traffic and bounce rates, because of short attention spans and potential customers getting bored or not finding what they needed — but seriously, if you are about to start using inventory control and production control software that will make your life easier and that you intend to use for years, attention span is not a problem. The metrics I do care about are signups, churn, and everything else that is money-related. But those I can (and do) measure myself. Note that I am not saying that analytics are totally useless, just that they aren't useful for me.
- Tenoke 5y ago>I honestly don't care which page gets more traffic — I don't get paid for traffic to web pages. I get paid by customers who subscribe and pay for using my software because it brings them value (continuously). If you apply that thinking to other areas it doesn't make as much sense e.g. 'I don't care if my site takes 2 minutes to load. I don't get paid for how fast my site loads. I get paid by customers who subscribe and pay for using my software because it brings them value.' Like sure, that's not what you are directly paid for but it doesn't necessarily mean the data can't help you increase signups. If you think of it in ML terms - that's extra data that would likely increase a theoretical model's accuracy as it's not fully covered by your other (more important) metrics. Except in this case the model is you and it's possible the extra work isn't worth it for the benefit which could be tiny.
- FiveClientAuto 5y agoSame story here. And imho it mirrors the near addiction people have of tracking their vitals and exercise data. Usage data != actionable data. What sort of action does knowing I took 15000 steps on avg this week help me take?
- Tenoke 5y agoPersonally seeing that I've done way too little steps/exercise reminds me and motivates me to be more active. If you are always equally active no matter what then yeah it's just not for you but not everyone is you.
- bradstewart 5y agoIt helps me realize I haven't stood up in the last 4 hours and I should probably walk around more this afternoon.
- dylan604 5y agoReally? Are you being deliberately obtuse? For someone that has not been active at all and is looking to see what kind of activity effort brings them to a desired activity target, then taking notes of what you've done and what was achieved is useful info. "How often do I need to do _______ to achieve my goal of _______" If you thought you needed to plan 1 hour per day, but realize you only need 15 mins per day, that's useful. NOBODY is going to count their steps manually.
- m0ksha 5y agopoint in time data doesn't really help as you mentioned. But if one can segment this and compare and contrast with other cohorts there could be other items that could be work taking some action on.
- dopp0 5y agobut you just track visits? You should track custom events to get actionable data, right? at least that's what we do: map which events we want, send it to GA and then get the reports to support decisions.
- londons_explore 5y agoI made two changes based on Google analytics data... I built a mobile compatible website (after previously believing my product was a strictly desktop/laptop only product). I translated my site into Portuguese, since the majority of my users were from there, and many of those users were acting like they didn't understand the site (written on English). Those two things were probably together a 20% revenue uplift. Worth having Google analytics.