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Those claims may very well be true but they are not the reason Fuchsia exists. And I do not believe data collection is either. They can already collect everythi

Those claims may very well be true but they are not the reason Fuchsia exists. And I do not believe data collection is either. They can already collect everything they want on Android and Chrome OS. I believe the real purpose is getting rid of Linux because Linux is not something they can control and because Linux is GPL. And instead of leveraging the GPL to push OEMs to open source and mainline drivers, Google would rather side with the OEMs. For Google, Fuchsia allows for longer support (in order to compete with Apple) while also allowing the OEMs to keep drivers proprietary and never update them.

blululu 5y ago
This is pretty spot on, though I am not sure that Google has the leverage to push the mobile phone industry in that direction. The last 15 years have shown us time and again that the industry as a whole (mobile phones but also IoT) is not going to open source driver code and it is not going to maintain driver code. The result is that there will continue to be pile of obsolete Android phones that are less than two years old. Even Google only commits to ~3years support for their Android phones and they can afford to not make a profit on their phones. Cutting down on this waste strikes me as a serious win.
- gman83 5y ago
  Leverage? They're basically the only game in town. Who else is going to write a modern mobile OS? Microsoft?
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    OEMs can just carry on using the last Android fork before Fuchsia's switch.
    - Iolaum 5y ago
      Can they? I don't think so. Putting aside their technical capability to do so, which is not a small issue, all consumer android phones must be certified by google to be able to install play services. If google mandates they need to use Fushia for it they will do so or get out the market.
      - pjmlp 5y ago
        Yes, Huawei and Amazon as examples of why Google doesn't matter.
        warning26 5y ago
        They are perfect examples; no one outside of China wanted to buy Huawei devices once they became de-Googled, and Amazon's devices only sell well because they're so incredibly cheap. Remember that time Amazon tried to release a "premium" phone?
        pjmlp 5y ago
        I can assure you most Europeans don't have issues with de-Googled Huawei devices. Regardless of the reason why Amazon Fire Tablets get sold, they are sold.
        Iolaum 5y ago
        LoL try to use a banking app on a de-googled phone.
  - blululu 5y ago
    It is less leverage than you might think. Samsung once threatened to switch their Phones to Tizen, Huawei is building out Harmony OS and all the Chinese OEM’s make hard forks of Android for that market since Google Play Services are illegal in China. A big part of why you would use Android is the price (free) and convenience (already built). Once you need to pay for it or put in extra development cycles the choice is less clear. Google really can’t just bend OEMs to its Will like that.
    - warning26 5y ago
      > Huawei is building out Harmony OS Ah yes, the Android reskin (see: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/02/harmonyos-hands-on-huaweis-android-killer-is-just-android/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/02/harmonyos-hands-on-h...) > Samsung once threatened to switch their Phones to Tizen An empty threat -- Samsung knows that no one would buy their phones based on Samsung specific software selling points like Bixby™
Infinity88 5y ago
While I'm sure that Google is writing Fuchsia in part to move away from the GPL, there are very good technical goals that Fuchsia accomplishes that Linux does not. Because Fuchsia is based around a microkernel, it offers much better security guarantees than Linux ever could. Almost everything from device drivers to the TCP/IP stack is a "normal" process in Fuchsia. If there's a security vulnerability in the TCP/IP stack or in a device driver, even if it's an arbitrary code execution vulnerability, it's much harder for an attacker to move inside the system. If you constrast that with Linux, if you compromise _any_ subsystem or _any_ device driver, you're in. And this is an inherent fault/trade-off when you select a monolithic design like the Linux kernel does.
- pjmlp 5y ago
  This is basically what Project Treble made to Android, standard Linux drivers are considered "legacy" from Android point of view, and as of Android 8 all new drivers are their own process using Android IPC and hardware buffer handles.
  - snvzz 5y ago
    Which is a much better approach. Having driver APIs is a good thing. Drivers belong in userspace, where they can get the benefits of compartmentalization.

blululu 5y ago

This is pretty spot on, though I am not sure that Google has the leverage to push the mobile phone industry in that direction. The last 15 years have shown us time and again that the industry as a whole (mobile phones but also IoT) is not going to open source driver code and it is not going to maintain driver code. The result is that there will continue to be pile of obsolete Android phones that are less than two years old. Even Google only commits to ~3years support for their Android phones and they can afford to not make a profit on their phones. Cutting down on this waste strikes me as a serious win.

gman83 5y ago
Leverage? They're basically the only game in town. Who else is going to write a modern mobile OS? Microsoft?
- pjmlp 5y ago
  OEMs can just carry on using the last Android fork before Fuchsia's switch.
  - Iolaum 5y ago
    Can they? I don't think so. Putting aside their technical capability to do so, which is not a small issue, all consumer android phones must be certified by google to be able to install play services. If google mandates they need to use Fushia for it they will do so or get out the market.
    - pjmlp 5y ago
      Yes, Huawei and Amazon as examples of why Google doesn't matter.
      - warning26 5y ago
        They are perfect examples; no one outside of China wanted to buy Huawei devices once they became de-Googled, and Amazon's devices only sell well because they're so incredibly cheap. Remember that time Amazon tried to release a "premium" phone?
        pjmlp 5y ago
        I can assure you most Europeans don't have issues with de-Googled Huawei devices. Regardless of the reason why Amazon Fire Tablets get sold, they are sold.
        Iolaum 5y ago
        LoL try to use a banking app on a de-googled phone.
- blululu 5y ago
  It is less leverage than you might think. Samsung once threatened to switch their Phones to Tizen, Huawei is building out Harmony OS and all the Chinese OEM’s make hard forks of Android for that market since Google Play Services are illegal in China. A big part of why you would use Android is the price (free) and convenience (already built). Once you need to pay for it or put in extra development cycles the choice is less clear. Google really can’t just bend OEMs to its Will like that.
  - warning26 5y ago
    > Huawei is building out Harmony OS Ah yes, the Android reskin (see: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/02/harmonyos-hands-on-huaweis-android-killer-is-just-android/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/02/harmonyos-hands-on-h...) > Samsung once threatened to switch their Phones to Tizen An empty threat -- Samsung knows that no one would buy their phones based on Samsung specific software selling points like Bixby™

Infinity88 5y ago

While I'm sure that Google is writing Fuchsia in part to move away from the GPL, there are very good technical goals that Fuchsia accomplishes that Linux does not. Because Fuchsia is based around a microkernel, it offers much better security guarantees than Linux ever could. Almost everything from device drivers to the TCP/IP stack is a "normal" process in Fuchsia. If there's a security vulnerability in the TCP/IP stack or in a device driver, even if it's an arbitrary code execution vulnerability, it's much harder for an attacker to move inside the system. If you constrast that with Linux, if you compromise _any_ subsystem or _any_ device driver, you're in. And this is an inherent fault/trade-off when you select a monolithic design like the Linux kernel does.

pjmlp 5y ago
This is basically what Project Treble made to Android, standard Linux drivers are considered "legacy" from Android point of view, and as of Android 8 all new drivers are their own process using Android IPC and hardware buffer handles.
- snvzz 5y ago
  Which is a much better approach. Having driver APIs is a good thing. Drivers belong in userspace, where they can get the benefits of compartmentalization.