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"Fuchsia is an open source effort to create a production-grade operating system that prioritizes security, updatability, and performance. Fuchsia is a foundatio

"Fuchsia is an open source effort to create a production-grade operating system that prioritizes security, updatability, and performance. Fuchsia is a foundation for developers to create long-lasting products and experiences across a broad range of devices. " "Security", "Updatability" ... "Long-Lasting". You'll forgive me google, if I don't believe that these are your true goals. History suggests otherwise. What I'd really like is the list of the ways you're planning to use this to increase how much data you collect on people.

Mikeb85 5y ago
Inspect the source then SMH.
squarefoot 5y ago
Also moving away from the Linux kernel will make even harder to find support for the hardware outside of Fuchsia, not to mention no way to repurpose old devices. If Google really had good intentions beside profits they could promise to open bootloaders and documentation of devices after they're declared obsolete, which wouldn't impact in any way their business, but I don't hold my breath on that.
- Iolaum 5y ago
  Since Fushia (the OS) is open source I wouldn't be surprised if the community builds a compatibility layer for the binary drivers to run in Linux. It wouldn't be a good thing to end up there though.
- usrusr 5y ago
  An alternative perspective would argue that an Android device without a boot breach is already as locked down as it can be, and that the same breach on Fuchsia might give a much easier path to mix and match unchanged components and custom implementations. I don't know which argument carries more weight. Should we expect Fuchsia to take a defense in depth approach to component authentication?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
alexvoda 5y ago
Those claims may very well be true but they are not the reason Fuchsia exists. And I do not believe data collection is either. They can already collect everything they want on Android and Chrome OS. I believe the real purpose is getting rid of Linux because Linux is not something they can control and because Linux is GPL. And instead of leveraging the GPL to push OEMs to open source and mainline drivers, Google would rather side with the OEMs. For Google, Fuchsia allows for longer support (in order to compete with Apple) while also allowing the OEMs to keep drivers proprietary and never update them.
- blululu 5y ago
  This is pretty spot on, though I am not sure that Google has the leverage to push the mobile phone industry in that direction. The last 15 years have shown us time and again that the industry as a whole (mobile phones but also IoT) is not going to open source driver code and it is not going to maintain driver code. The result is that there will continue to be pile of obsolete Android phones that are less than two years old. Even Google only commits to ~3years support for their Android phones and they can afford to not make a profit on their phones. Cutting down on this waste strikes me as a serious win.
  - gman83 5y ago
    Leverage? They're basically the only game in town. Who else is going to write a modern mobile OS? Microsoft?
    - pjmlp 5y ago
      OEMs can just carry on using the last Android fork before Fuchsia's switch.
      - Iolaum 5y ago
        Can they? I don't think so. Putting aside their technical capability to do so, which is not a small issue, all consumer android phones must be certified by google to be able to install play services. If google mandates they need to use Fushia for it they will do so or get out the market.
crummy 5y ago
Haven't they put a lot of work into updatability with android which appears to be slowly paying off?
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
jillesvangurp 5y ago
Fuchsia is Google's not invented here syndrome expressed in operating system form. There's a pattern of behavior where nothing invented/controlled outside of Google is ever good enough for Google. So, they fixed C/C++ by inventing Go. They fixed cross platform UIs by inventing Flutter. They've been trying to fix chat protocols in a weird time loop that results in a new chat product about every year, when Webkit became a success at Apple, they forked it and created Chrome. With each of those the (better) alternative could have been working with open source communities to improve things. And of course they often do. But their reflex is to internalize things and make them Google things. Their motive is very simple: control. Mostly they actually do a good job because they just have a lot of skilled people. Go is a nice language, people seem to like Flutter (even if I don't), Chrome is arguably the most popular browser by far, etc. So, from Google's perspective this probably is a proven strategy. With Linux vs Fuchsia, their motive is crystal clear. Linux is kind of high maintenance in the sense of cat herding its community in any kind of direction is somewhat of a challenge. That's Linus Torvald's job and he isn't a Googler and fiercely independent and hard to manage. Google soft forked years ago with Android and the Android kernel is way behind what happens in the Linux kernel and has lots of custom patches. Fuchsia is an attempt to break away from that and have something that is easier to deal with technically, without GPL and other IP issues, and something they control. It's the same reason Apple and Microsoft don't ship operating systems based on Linux (yet, MS came close a few times): they like having control. In my view the challenges with Fuchsia are actually non technical and related to Google's control over it. That is not going to sit well with OEMs that have already had to deal with Google's level of control over Android. Are the likes of Samsung, Huawei, etc. going to jump on the band wagon? I think that they won't be in a hurry to do that. I think that's one of the reasons why Google is taking their sweet time getting to market with this with a more serious product than the Nest stuff they did a while back. Maybe I'm wrong and the next Pixel phone is going to be Fuchsia based. Or maybe that will never happen.
- rvz 5y ago
  > Maybe I'm wrong and the next Pixel phone is going to be Fuchsia based. Or maybe that will never happen. I bet it will happen. I also bet during this decade and the next that at least one Pixel phone will be Fuchsia based and ChromeOS will also be Fuchsia based. Google's intentions with Fuchsia are absolutely clear.

Mikeb85 5y ago

Inspect the source then SMH.

squarefoot 5y ago

Also moving away from the Linux kernel will make even harder to find support for the hardware outside of Fuchsia, not to mention no way to repurpose old devices. If Google really had good intentions beside profits they could promise to open bootloaders and documentation of devices after they're declared obsolete, which wouldn't impact in any way their business, but I don't hold my breath on that.

Iolaum 5y ago
Since Fushia (the OS) is open source I wouldn't be surprised if the community builds a compatibility layer for the binary drivers to run in Linux. It wouldn't be a good thing to end up there though.
usrusr 5y ago
An alternative perspective would argue that an Android device without a boot breach is already as locked down as it can be, and that the same breach on Fuchsia might give a much easier path to mix and match unchanged components and custom implementations. I don't know which argument carries more weight. Should we expect Fuchsia to take a defense in depth approach to component authentication?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

alexvoda 5y ago

Those claims may very well be true but they are not the reason Fuchsia exists. And I do not believe data collection is either. They can already collect everything they want on Android and Chrome OS. I believe the real purpose is getting rid of Linux because Linux is not something they can control and because Linux is GPL. And instead of leveraging the GPL to push OEMs to open source and mainline drivers, Google would rather side with the OEMs. For Google, Fuchsia allows for longer support (in order to compete with Apple) while also allowing the OEMs to keep drivers proprietary and never update them.

blululu 5y ago
This is pretty spot on, though I am not sure that Google has the leverage to push the mobile phone industry in that direction. The last 15 years have shown us time and again that the industry as a whole (mobile phones but also IoT) is not going to open source driver code and it is not going to maintain driver code. The result is that there will continue to be pile of obsolete Android phones that are less than two years old. Even Google only commits to ~3years support for their Android phones and they can afford to not make a profit on their phones. Cutting down on this waste strikes me as a serious win.
- gman83 5y ago
  Leverage? They're basically the only game in town. Who else is going to write a modern mobile OS? Microsoft?
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    OEMs can just carry on using the last Android fork before Fuchsia's switch.
    - Iolaum 5y ago
      Can they? I don't think so. Putting aside their technical capability to do so, which is not a small issue, all consumer android phones must be certified by google to be able to install play services. If google mandates they need to use Fushia for it they will do so or get out the market.

crummy 5y ago

Haven't they put a lot of work into updatability with android which appears to be slowly paying off?

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

jillesvangurp 5y ago

Fuchsia is Google's not invented here syndrome expressed in operating system form. There's a pattern of behavior where nothing invented/controlled outside of Google is ever good enough for Google. So, they fixed C/C++ by inventing Go. They fixed cross platform UIs by inventing Flutter. They've been trying to fix chat protocols in a weird time loop that results in a new chat product about every year, when Webkit became a success at Apple, they forked it and created Chrome. With each of those the (better) alternative could have been working with open source communities to improve things. And of course they often do. But their reflex is to internalize things and make them Google things. Their motive is very simple: control. Mostly they actually do a good job because they just have a lot of skilled people. Go is a nice language, people seem to like Flutter (even if I don't), Chrome is arguably the most popular browser by far, etc. So, from Google's perspective this probably is a proven strategy. With Linux vs Fuchsia, their motive is crystal clear. Linux is kind of high maintenance in the sense of cat herding its community in any kind of direction is somewhat of a challenge. That's Linus Torvald's job and he isn't a Googler and fiercely independent and hard to manage. Google soft forked years ago with Android and the Android kernel is way behind what happens in the Linux kernel and has lots of custom patches. Fuchsia is an attempt to break away from that and have something that is easier to deal with technically, without GPL and other IP issues, and something they control. It's the same reason Apple and Microsoft don't ship operating systems based on Linux (yet, MS came close a few times): they like having control. In my view the challenges with Fuchsia are actually non technical and related to Google's control over it. That is not going to sit well with OEMs that have already had to deal with Google's level of control over Android. Are the likes of Samsung, Huawei, etc. going to jump on the band wagon? I think that they won't be in a hurry to do that. I think that's one of the reasons why Google is taking their sweet time getting to market with this with a more serious product than the Nest stuff they did a while back. Maybe I'm wrong and the next Pixel phone is going to be Fuchsia based. Or maybe that will never happen.

rvz 5y ago
> Maybe I'm wrong and the next Pixel phone is going to be Fuchsia based. Or maybe that will never happen. I bet it will happen. I also bet during this decade and the next that at least one Pixel phone will be Fuchsia based and ChromeOS will also be Fuchsia based. Google's intentions with Fuchsia are absolutely clear.