4 ms·

Around 15,000 people have been detained for protesting since the start of the war, despite facing 15 years prison sentences for simply calling that war a "war"

by asats 5y ago

Around 15,000 people have been detained for protesting since the start of the war, despite facing 15 years prison sentences for simply calling that war a "war" and russian prisons having documented organized torture rings. How many times have you faced decades in jail and possible torture?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
jddil 5y ago
- azornathogron 5y ago
  In London, in 2002, there were big protests against the imminent war in Iraq. According to Wikipedia, "an anti-war rally in London drew a crowd of at least 150,000". The UK is, nominally at least, a democracy. It's certainly a place where protesters are at much less risk than protesters in Russia. But after the protests we still invaded Iraq. I support Ukraine 100%. I'm glad the UK and EU and US are sending weapons and aid. I'm glad that some Russians are vocally against the war. But honestly I don't know what people expect the Russian protests to accomplish. I don't know how big would be "too big to ignore" - it doesn't seem possible.
  - jddil 5y ago
    - asats 5y ago
      I'm sorry, but you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Russians have been protesting since 2011, and had protests bigger than that that only resulted in all of the opposition leaders getting jailed/murdered/exiled and thousands of people having criminal cases open against them. Tons of people that protested have left the country due to safety concerns. Belorussians just had a giant wave of protests, with up to a million people (10% of the entire populations) taking up to the streets, and Lukashenko is still in power, but an unknown number of people have been arrested/diapered/tortured https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_Belarusian_protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_Belarusian_p... Saying 20,000 people should go get murdered is also simply evil, no matter what your supposed intentions are.
      - jddil 5y ago
        I never said 20,000 people should die, please don't put words in other peoples mouths. It's against HN rules. I'm saying if the Russian people showed that they disliked Putin in large enough numbers this would end. (either with him ousted, or him having to kill too many people to hide). Also you are making a FANTASTIC argument for why American/EU imperialism is about to come back in a bad way. Apparently once a dictator takes over there is no other choices but to just let him do whatever they want, the country is lost and must be "saved" from itself since it's populace can no longer resist.
        asats 5y ago
        I'm not saying the country can't change from within, I'm saying two things, one is that you can't change it by attacking random people within it, two is that you have no right to tell people to go face death. Changing the country takes time and organization, you have to cut through propaganda with the real information, change public opinion, and then organize action. So supporting the opposition and independent journalist, human rights groups that help arrested protesters on one hand, and sanctioning the government and the oligarch on the other might actually do something. Deleting files of some random russians and telling them to go get murdered will not.
- asats 5y ago
  You do understand you are talking about real people? Young girls, parents of toddlers, grandmas? Why do you think _you_ have the right to tell them to go face possible death and torture?
  - jddil 5y ago
    Are the Ukrainians not real people? Young girls, parents of toddlers are getting killed right now by Russians and we are excusing not protesting this cause they may get in trouble, nah that's not ok.
  - mardifoufs 5y ago
    No, but see, that's okay to do. Having completely insane expectations from the other side and asking normal people to throw away their lives is okay. Just as long as you don't ask for them to do the same, or why they didn't do the same in the past because that's just whataboutism now. The only charitable interpretation I can come up with is that they maybe live in a democracy and are too used to politics being completely devoid of any danger. It's easy to have strong convictions and strongly held opinions/values in a peaceful democracy, but it's completely different when politics involve violence and can ruin your whole life.
  - google234123 5y ago
    They did choose to overwhelming vote and support for politicians that are now murdering real people including “ Young girls, parents of toddlers, grandmas”…
    - netsharc 5y ago
      Free and fair elections? With candidates who haven't been jailed under trumped up charges, or "fell out" of windows? Free media that informed the electorate?

by asats 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

jddil 5y ago

azornathogron 5y ago
In London, in 2002, there were big protests against the imminent war in Iraq. According to Wikipedia, "an anti-war rally in London drew a crowd of at least 150,000". The UK is, nominally at least, a democracy. It's certainly a place where protesters are at much less risk than protesters in Russia. But after the protests we still invaded Iraq. I support Ukraine 100%. I'm glad the UK and EU and US are sending weapons and aid. I'm glad that some Russians are vocally against the war. But honestly I don't know what people expect the Russian protests to accomplish. I don't know how big would be "too big to ignore" - it doesn't seem possible.
- jddil 5y ago
  - asats 5y ago
    I'm sorry, but you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Russians have been protesting since 2011, and had protests bigger than that that only resulted in all of the opposition leaders getting jailed/murdered/exiled and thousands of people having criminal cases open against them. Tons of people that protested have left the country due to safety concerns. Belorussians just had a giant wave of protests, with up to a million people (10% of the entire populations) taking up to the streets, and Lukashenko is still in power, but an unknown number of people have been arrested/diapered/tortured https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_Belarusian_protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_Belarusian_p... Saying 20,000 people should go get murdered is also simply evil, no matter what your supposed intentions are.
    - jddil 5y ago
      I never said 20,000 people should die, please don't put words in other peoples mouths. It's against HN rules. I'm saying if the Russian people showed that they disliked Putin in large enough numbers this would end. (either with him ousted, or him having to kill too many people to hide). Also you are making a FANTASTIC argument for why American/EU imperialism is about to come back in a bad way. Apparently once a dictator takes over there is no other choices but to just let him do whatever they want, the country is lost and must be "saved" from itself since it's populace can no longer resist.
      - asats 5y ago
        I'm not saying the country can't change from within, I'm saying two things, one is that you can't change it by attacking random people within it, two is that you have no right to tell people to go face death. Changing the country takes time and organization, you have to cut through propaganda with the real information, change public opinion, and then organize action. So supporting the opposition and independent journalist, human rights groups that help arrested protesters on one hand, and sanctioning the government and the oligarch on the other might actually do something. Deleting files of some random russians and telling them to go get murdered will not.
asats 5y ago
You do understand you are talking about real people? Young girls, parents of toddlers, grandmas? Why do you think _you_ have the right to tell them to go face possible death and torture?
- jddil 5y ago
  Are the Ukrainians not real people? Young girls, parents of toddlers are getting killed right now by Russians and we are excusing not protesting this cause they may get in trouble, nah that's not ok.
- mardifoufs 5y ago
  No, but see, that's okay to do. Having completely insane expectations from the other side and asking normal people to throw away their lives is okay. Just as long as you don't ask for them to do the same, or why they didn't do the same in the past because that's just whataboutism now. The only charitable interpretation I can come up with is that they maybe live in a democracy and are too used to politics being completely devoid of any danger. It's easy to have strong convictions and strongly held opinions/values in a peaceful democracy, but it's completely different when politics involve violence and can ruin your whole life.
- google234123 5y ago
  They did choose to overwhelming vote and support for politicians that are now murdering real people including “ Young girls, parents of toddlers, grandmas”…
  - netsharc 5y ago
    Free and fair elections? With candidates who haven't been jailed under trumped up charges, or "fell out" of windows? Free media that informed the electorate?