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This is crazy. Are you hating on every Russian now ? Nobody is chocked by how anger against the the russian state shifted to hate against russian people ?

by slim 5y ago

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
asats 5y ago
On top of that, petty, personal attacks like that have the absolute opposite effect if the supposed intention is to motivate russians to protest. It just makes people angry and suspicious of the west, nothing else.
tiahura 5y ago
jddil 5y ago
- asats 5y ago
  Around 15,000 people have been detained for protesting since the start of the war, despite facing 15 years prison sentences for simply calling that war a "war" and russian prisons having documented organized torture rings. How many times have you faced decades in jail and possible torture?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - jddil 5y ago
    - azornathogron 5y ago
      In London, in 2002, there were big protests against the imminent war in Iraq. According to Wikipedia, "an anti-war rally in London drew a crowd of at least 150,000". The UK is, nominally at least, a democracy. It's certainly a place where protesters are at much less risk than protesters in Russia. But after the protests we still invaded Iraq. I support Ukraine 100%. I'm glad the UK and EU and US are sending weapons and aid. I'm glad that some Russians are vocally against the war. But honestly I don't know what people expect the Russian protests to accomplish. I don't know how big would be "too big to ignore" - it doesn't seem possible.
      - jddil 5y ago
        asats 5y ago
        I'm sorry, but you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Russians have been protesting since 2011, and had protests bigger than that that only resulted in all of the opposition leaders getting jailed/murdered/exiled and thousands of people having criminal cases open against them. Tons of people that protested have left the country due to safety concerns. Belorussians just had a giant wave of protests, with up to a million people (10% of the entire populations) taking up to the streets, and Lukashenko is still in power, but an unknown number of people have been arrested/diapered/tortured https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_Belarusian_protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_Belarusian_p... Saying 20,000 people should go get murdered is also simply evil, no matter what your supposed intentions are.
        jddil 5y ago
        I never said 20,000 people should die, please don't put words in other peoples mouths. It's against HN rules. I'm saying if the Russian people showed that they disliked Putin in large enough numbers this would end. (either with him ousted, or him having to kill too many people to hide). Also you are making a FANTASTIC argument for why American/EU imperialism is about to come back in a bad way. Apparently once a dictator takes over there is no other choices but to just let him do whatever they want, the country is lost and must be "saved" from itself since it's populace can no longer resist.
- mardifoufs 5y ago
  I'm sorry but this argument is absurd. Victimizing a population will never make them join your side and especially not when you openly make it clear that you are targeting them. If you followed the internal situation in russia, you'd see that the early opposition to the war vanished after sanctions precisely aimed at civilians started piling up. That's also the difference between actual international sanctions and this type of "activism"; while nation states have the means and the stated objective of specifically hurting the state apparatus and the government of another nation , github repo maintainers literally can only hurt and target normal russian people. Official sanctions will hurt the population too but they at least also target those in power, and those responsible for the war. Now, obviously, you can say that the russians are themselves the aggressors and should blame their leaders which is totally true. But that doesn't matter because they will absolutely not start supporting the side that is actively trying to punish/victimize them. It's beyond counterproductive and it makes the internal situation much much easier for putin to manage. By the way, it's scary how how many people are starting to unironically use the same type of argument that bin laden used to attack the US. If you read his letters, he repeatedly said that American civilians were not blameless and complicit to what America was doing to Muslims because they could've changed their government . Worse, they were instead totally supportive of their state's foreign policy! That made them "fair game" as you said. Now if you don't see how dangerous that line of reasoning can be...
  - asats 5y ago
    This has been exactly my impression of the internal situation as well. The first wave of sanctions targeted at the russian government/central bank (where the normal people were only collateral) made the normal people angry at the russian government for causing that situation. Subsequent sanctions aimed at civilians have left people demoralized/hopeless and angry at the west. Expecting superhuman levels of heroism from people that are being attacked and victimized from all sides is just lunacy. I saw people seriously contemplating suicide.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
mardifoufs 5y ago
It's been eye opening to see how easily we can normalize this type of stuff. Social media is also full of deranged calls for full on war against Russia (!!), war crime apologia, and just a pervasive hysterical discourse. The slope is getting so slippery that honestly it's got to stop. Let statesmen impose the sanctions that they deem necessary, they know better than random people. What ukraine needs is advanced weaponry, financial and political support. Not this batshit insane vigilantism that will not end well and do absolutely nothing to hurt the Russian state. I cant even imagine if this happened to a more visible minority, say if China invaded taiwan? It's just scary. I'm not saying this is on the same level at all, but I'm starting to understand how it got to the point where the internement of Japanese Americans was supported by a majority of Americans back in ww2. As a minority it just gives me this weird unsettling feeling that is a bit hard to explain, even if I'm not russian.
- baybal2 5y ago
  [dead]
ComputerGuru 5y ago
It’s straight out of 1984 groupthink. We have always been at war with Eurasia, they are the enemy.
- labster 5y ago
  We have always been allied with Mideastasia, let the oil plusflow like water!
- TMWNN 5y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-LRS9A-rW4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-LRS9A-rW4
tomjen3 5y ago
I have seen enough war crime photage that I am willing to accept any amount of civilian damage against Russia that is going to have an effect on the war, short of nukes. When your government uses hospital locations as a target list and drop bombs on shelters, I don’t care if your files gets deleted.
- foverzar 5y ago
  > I have seen enough war crime photage You have participated in too many instances of two minutes hate and were gaslighted by propaganda. I laugh hysterically (in a very sad way), as I scroll through /r/Ukraine and see yet another video headlined as "Another Russian war-crime in Ukraine", that I had already seen few years ago headlined as "Ukrainian war-crime in Donetsk". There is no truth anymore, literally every man for himself.
  - prohobo 5y ago
    To me this is a call to get off the corporate controlled internet. People have been warning about this since like 2010, and I always agreed that there could be a danger, but I never realized just how bad it already is. This is a kind of phenomena that I can only describe as internet psychosis. Considering how toxic all these platforms are, it's quite plain to see now that the people captured by them are not invested in reality and seem to be coalescing into a kind of psychotic frame of mind. Even people who aren't captured are affected by it, and I have no doubt that I've been subjected to multiple psyop and propaganda campaigns just by perusing sites like Twitter, Reddit and Youtube. The modern internet is a warzone that weaponizes emotions. IMO, for the good of society and the future of the internet people need to get out as soon as possible and build new services that don't play into this.
thereare5lights 5y ago
Why is anyone surprised that this is happening. All you had to do is look at how people treat Asian people to realize what was going to happen to Russian people.

This is crazy. Are you hating on every Russian now ? Nobody is chocked by how anger against the the russian state shifted to hate against russian people ?

by slim 5y ago

This is crazy. Are you hating on every Russian now ? Nobody is chocked by how anger against the the russian state shifted to hate against russian people ?

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

asats 5y ago

On top of that, petty, personal attacks like that have the absolute opposite effect if the supposed intention is to motivate russians to protest. It just makes people angry and suspicious of the west, nothing else.

tiahura 5y ago

jddil 5y ago

asats 5y ago
Around 15,000 people have been detained for protesting since the start of the war, despite facing 15 years prison sentences for simply calling that war a "war" and russian prisons having documented organized torture rings. How many times have you faced decades in jail and possible torture?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- jddil 5y ago
  - azornathogron 5y ago
    In London, in 2002, there were big protests against the imminent war in Iraq. According to Wikipedia, "an anti-war rally in London drew a crowd of at least 150,000". The UK is, nominally at least, a democracy. It's certainly a place where protesters are at much less risk than protesters in Russia. But after the protests we still invaded Iraq. I support Ukraine 100%. I'm glad the UK and EU and US are sending weapons and aid. I'm glad that some Russians are vocally against the war. But honestly I don't know what people expect the Russian protests to accomplish. I don't know how big would be "too big to ignore" - it doesn't seem possible.
    - jddil 5y ago
      - asats 5y ago
        I'm sorry, but you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Russians have been protesting since 2011, and had protests bigger than that that only resulted in all of the opposition leaders getting jailed/murdered/exiled and thousands of people having criminal cases open against them. Tons of people that protested have left the country due to safety concerns. Belorussians just had a giant wave of protests, with up to a million people (10% of the entire populations) taking up to the streets, and Lukashenko is still in power, but an unknown number of people have been arrested/diapered/tortured https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_Belarusian_protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_Belarusian_p... Saying 20,000 people should go get murdered is also simply evil, no matter what your supposed intentions are.
        jddil 5y ago
        I never said 20,000 people should die, please don't put words in other peoples mouths. It's against HN rules. I'm saying if the Russian people showed that they disliked Putin in large enough numbers this would end. (either with him ousted, or him having to kill too many people to hide). Also you are making a FANTASTIC argument for why American/EU imperialism is about to come back in a bad way. Apparently once a dictator takes over there is no other choices but to just let him do whatever they want, the country is lost and must be "saved" from itself since it's populace can no longer resist.
mardifoufs 5y ago
I'm sorry but this argument is absurd. Victimizing a population will never make them join your side and especially not when you openly make it clear that you are targeting them. If you followed the internal situation in russia, you'd see that the early opposition to the war vanished after sanctions precisely aimed at civilians started piling up. That's also the difference between actual international sanctions and this type of "activism"; while nation states have the means and the stated objective of specifically hurting the state apparatus and the government of another nation , github repo maintainers literally can only hurt and target normal russian people. Official sanctions will hurt the population too but they at least also target those in power, and those responsible for the war. Now, obviously, you can say that the russians are themselves the aggressors and should blame their leaders which is totally true. But that doesn't matter because they will absolutely not start supporting the side that is actively trying to punish/victimize them. It's beyond counterproductive and it makes the internal situation much much easier for putin to manage. By the way, it's scary how how many people are starting to unironically use the same type of argument that bin laden used to attack the US. If you read his letters, he repeatedly said that American civilians were not blameless and complicit to what America was doing to Muslims because they could've changed their government . Worse, they were instead totally supportive of their state's foreign policy! That made them "fair game" as you said. Now if you don't see how dangerous that line of reasoning can be...
- asats 5y ago
  This has been exactly my impression of the internal situation as well. The first wave of sanctions targeted at the russian government/central bank (where the normal people were only collateral) made the normal people angry at the russian government for causing that situation. Subsequent sanctions aimed at civilians have left people demoralized/hopeless and angry at the west. Expecting superhuman levels of heroism from people that are being attacked and victimized from all sides is just lunacy. I saw people seriously contemplating suicide.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]

mardifoufs 5y ago

It's been eye opening to see how easily we can normalize this type of stuff. Social media is also full of deranged calls for full on war against Russia (!!), war crime apologia, and just a pervasive hysterical discourse. The slope is getting so slippery that honestly it's got to stop. Let statesmen impose the sanctions that they deem necessary, they know better than random people. What ukraine needs is advanced weaponry, financial and political support. Not this batshit insane vigilantism that will not end well and do absolutely nothing to hurt the Russian state. I cant even imagine if this happened to a more visible minority, say if China invaded taiwan? It's just scary. I'm not saying this is on the same level at all, but I'm starting to understand how it got to the point where the internement of Japanese Americans was supported by a majority of Americans back in ww2. As a minority it just gives me this weird unsettling feeling that is a bit hard to explain, even if I'm not russian.

baybal2 5y ago
[dead]

ComputerGuru 5y ago

It’s straight out of 1984 groupthink. We have always been at war with Eurasia, they are the enemy.

labster 5y ago
We have always been allied with Mideastasia, let the oil plusflow like water!
TMWNN 5y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-LRS9A-rW4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-LRS9A-rW4

tomjen3 5y ago

I have seen enough war crime photage that I am willing to accept any amount of civilian damage against Russia that is going to have an effect on the war, short of nukes. When your government uses hospital locations as a target list and drop bombs on shelters, I don’t care if your files gets deleted.

foverzar 5y ago
> I have seen enough war crime photage You have participated in too many instances of two minutes hate and were gaslighted by propaganda. I laugh hysterically (in a very sad way), as I scroll through /r/Ukraine and see yet another video headlined as "Another Russian war-crime in Ukraine", that I had already seen few years ago headlined as "Ukrainian war-crime in Donetsk". There is no truth anymore, literally every man for himself.
- prohobo 5y ago
  To me this is a call to get off the corporate controlled internet. People have been warning about this since like 2010, and I always agreed that there could be a danger, but I never realized just how bad it already is. This is a kind of phenomena that I can only describe as internet psychosis. Considering how toxic all these platforms are, it's quite plain to see now that the people captured by them are not invested in reality and seem to be coalescing into a kind of psychotic frame of mind. Even people who aren't captured are affected by it, and I have no doubt that I've been subjected to multiple psyop and propaganda campaigns just by perusing sites like Twitter, Reddit and Youtube. The modern internet is a warzone that weaponizes emotions. IMO, for the good of society and the future of the internet people need to get out as soon as possible and build new services that don't play into this.

thereare5lights 5y ago

Why is anyone surprised that this is happening. All you had to do is look at how people treat Asian people to realize what was going to happen to Russian people.