5 ms·

I mean it did make everyone better. The COVID pandemic could have really wiped out a lot of people and we printed money and it helped. It’s the austerity peopl

by CPLX 5y ago

I mean it did make everyone better. The COVID pandemic could have really wiped out a lot of people and we printed money and it helped. It’s the austerity people that have never cared about anything but their ideology. Austerity for austerity’s sake has caused unfathomable human misery in the globalization era. Right now the labor market is good for workers. That is good. Getting there has always opposed by the ruling class interests though which is why we haven’t pursued it. MMT at it’s heart is just an increasingly large number of voices screaming out “fucking STOP” and actually try to get to a relatively tight labor market, because on the whole doing so is better for most people. Yeah sure inflation is an issue but as we are seeing now it’s always been something that can be addressed by putting on the brakes a little. And for the record I have a degree in economics. I get the other side of the argument. My point of view is that the other side of the argument and elite economists have been fundamentally corrupt in their analysis for decades.

e4e78a06 5y ago
> Right now the labor market is good for workers It is good _nominally_. Real wages are basically flat. Meanwhile, for everyone who didn't get a raise or can't currently find a new job for whatever reason, they're losing purchasing power. On top of that, the housing market has been completely destroyed by the Fed printing money and shoving it into mortgage backed securities. In many nicer areas of Southern California you used to be able to get a starter home for $600k (manageable for someone in a working class profession like a nurse or mechanic), now nothing on the market is less than $1.2M. Also you forget that a big reason the labor market is so tight is because a couple million Boomers retired early during the pandemic.
- CPLX 5y ago
  Seems to me if real wages are flat or mildly increasing and it’s WAY easier to get a job that’s a way better world to live in for the kind of people who apply for jobs.
- lazide 5y ago
  Compared to a Great Depression type cycle in the middle of the pandemic, what is the other alternative?
  - e4e78a06 5y ago
    Well I think a big contributor to the current inflation problem was the last round of stimulus passed right as the pandemic was starting to wind down. At that point unemployment numbers had almost gotten back to normal and most revenue numbers for things like restaurants, travel, etc. had recovered to at least 70% of pre-pandemic levels. And then some states like California dumped even more money into the economy through multi-round state funded stimulus checks over a year after the pandemic started. The unemployment programs also should have started winding down the moment vaccines were widely available rather than 6 months after the fact. I personally know a lot of people that just dumped their stimulus checks on memecoins or wasted it buying spurious goods. I'm sure the used car and electronics market also was greatly affected by stimulus as well. The Fed also should have limited its stimulus to buying Treasuries rather than MBS. It makes no sense for the government to buy mortgage backed securities (basically a freebie to homeowners/homebuyers who are already wealthy).
    - lazide 5y ago
      I expect it's years of money printing to avoid a dip in the middle of the largest demand drop we've had in a very long time, following by a resurgence in demand as folks get out and try to get moving again (resulting in them spending a bunch of that money all the sudden). It's pretty predictable IMO. Either we'd have to drop the economy during the demand slackening during COVID (which would have caused a severe recession, because it WAS a recession in activity, and then there would be a bunch of panicked people in the middle of a pandemic who also lost all their income running around and maybe setting even MORE things on fire), or inflate our way out of it. Hopefully we don't see some crazy 25% inflation like the 80's, but I wouldn't rule it out. I'd expect that in a few years it'll flatten out though.
    - CPLX 5y ago
      > a lot of people that just dumped their stimulus checks on memecoins or wasted it buying spurious goods By contrast, when the Bush tax cuts were passed all that money was used for tasteful, ethical spending
selimthegrim 5y ago
MMT is a bunch of emergent identities that get dubbed gospel which depend on the US dollar being a reserve currency backed by global economic imperialism. MMT died the day the US and EU froze Russia's reserves.
diognesofsinope 5y ago
> we printed money and it helped. I mean, did it? What evidence do you have for this claim? Vaccines absolutely helped. But now everyone's wages are going down -- it was basically ~$3k stimulus checks that were actually loans with a 400% interest rate. Real workers wages are falling. Inflation fundamentally increases inequality, i.e. people who own assets watch the value of those assets increase while people who work for income watch their income fall.
- CPLX 5y ago
  > What evidence do you have for this claim A tight job market > now everyone's wages are going down Not the people that just got jobs > Inflation fundamentally increases inequality Not nearly as much as unemployment does
MisterMower 5y ago
“I mean it did make everyone better. The COVID pandemic could have really wiped out a lot of people and we printed money and it helped.” Well, let’s see: 1. I got maybe $3k from the government due to all that printing. 2. The price level is easily up 25% for things I need to buy, like food, fuel, computing equipment, and vehicles. 3. And I still got Covid, as did literally everyone else I know. My brother still can’t taste anything and a guy I work with died. If that’s what you guys with economics degrees call a win, I will update my priors from “you guys are idiots” to “you guys are a cult that uses math to further the work of Satan.”
- SantalBlush 5y ago
  I did, in fact, laugh out loud at this. Did you think those personal checks were meant to prevent you from getting COVID?
  - hervature 5y ago
    Do you have so little respect of your fellow man that you think they are incapable of thinking? A big part of the spending was designed to float businesses during lockdowns to “flatten the curve”. The idea being that paying people to stay home would reduce risk of infection. They are pointing out this outcome did not happen.
    - SantalBlush 5y ago
      >Do you have so little respect of your fellow man that you think they are incapable of thinking? Funny, I was thinking the same thing about the above comment I was replying to. >They are pointing out this outcome did not happen. Flattening the curve absolutely does not mean preventing people from getting COVID; it's about lengthening the time horizon in which the population gets infected to reduce strain on the health care system. Moreover, a personal anecdote about getting COVID doesn't imply an overall policy failure. Just because someone let sick people cough in their face doesn't mean they should wax intellectual about macroeconomics.
      - 5y ago
TrispusAttucks 5y ago
> I mean it did make everyone better. The COVID pandemic could have really wiped out a lot of people and we printed money and it helped. Yeah, Helped transfer wealth to the wealthy!

by CPLX 5y ago

e4e78a06 5y ago

> Right now the labor market is good for workers It is good _nominally_. Real wages are basically flat. Meanwhile, for everyone who didn't get a raise or can't currently find a new job for whatever reason, they're losing purchasing power. On top of that, the housing market has been completely destroyed by the Fed printing money and shoving it into mortgage backed securities. In many nicer areas of Southern California you used to be able to get a starter home for $600k (manageable for someone in a working class profession like a nurse or mechanic), now nothing on the market is less than $1.2M. Also you forget that a big reason the labor market is so tight is because a couple million Boomers retired early during the pandemic.

CPLX 5y ago
Seems to me if real wages are flat or mildly increasing and it’s WAY easier to get a job that’s a way better world to live in for the kind of people who apply for jobs.
lazide 5y ago
Compared to a Great Depression type cycle in the middle of the pandemic, what is the other alternative?
- e4e78a06 5y ago
  Well I think a big contributor to the current inflation problem was the last round of stimulus passed right as the pandemic was starting to wind down. At that point unemployment numbers had almost gotten back to normal and most revenue numbers for things like restaurants, travel, etc. had recovered to at least 70% of pre-pandemic levels. And then some states like California dumped even more money into the economy through multi-round state funded stimulus checks over a year after the pandemic started. The unemployment programs also should have started winding down the moment vaccines were widely available rather than 6 months after the fact. I personally know a lot of people that just dumped their stimulus checks on memecoins or wasted it buying spurious goods. I'm sure the used car and electronics market also was greatly affected by stimulus as well. The Fed also should have limited its stimulus to buying Treasuries rather than MBS. It makes no sense for the government to buy mortgage backed securities (basically a freebie to homeowners/homebuyers who are already wealthy).
  - lazide 5y ago
    I expect it's years of money printing to avoid a dip in the middle of the largest demand drop we've had in a very long time, following by a resurgence in demand as folks get out and try to get moving again (resulting in them spending a bunch of that money all the sudden). It's pretty predictable IMO. Either we'd have to drop the economy during the demand slackening during COVID (which would have caused a severe recession, because it WAS a recession in activity, and then there would be a bunch of panicked people in the middle of a pandemic who also lost all their income running around and maybe setting even MORE things on fire), or inflate our way out of it. Hopefully we don't see some crazy 25% inflation like the 80's, but I wouldn't rule it out. I'd expect that in a few years it'll flatten out though.
  - CPLX 5y ago
    > a lot of people that just dumped their stimulus checks on memecoins or wasted it buying spurious goods By contrast, when the Bush tax cuts were passed all that money was used for tasteful, ethical spending

selimthegrim 5y ago

MMT is a bunch of emergent identities that get dubbed gospel which depend on the US dollar being a reserve currency backed by global economic imperialism. MMT died the day the US and EU froze Russia's reserves.

diognesofsinope 5y ago

> we printed money and it helped. I mean, did it? What evidence do you have for this claim? Vaccines absolutely helped. But now everyone's wages are going down -- it was basically ~$3k stimulus checks that were actually loans with a 400% interest rate. Real workers wages are falling. Inflation fundamentally increases inequality, i.e. people who own assets watch the value of those assets increase while people who work for income watch their income fall.

CPLX 5y ago
> What evidence do you have for this claim A tight job market > now everyone's wages are going down Not the people that just got jobs > Inflation fundamentally increases inequality Not nearly as much as unemployment does

MisterMower 5y ago

“I mean it did make everyone better. The COVID pandemic could have really wiped out a lot of people and we printed money and it helped.” Well, let’s see: 1. I got maybe $3k from the government due to all that printing. 2. The price level is easily up 25% for things I need to buy, like food, fuel, computing equipment, and vehicles. 3. And I still got Covid, as did literally everyone else I know. My brother still can’t taste anything and a guy I work with died. If that’s what you guys with economics degrees call a win, I will update my priors from “you guys are idiots” to “you guys are a cult that uses math to further the work of Satan.”

SantalBlush 5y ago
I did, in fact, laugh out loud at this. Did you think those personal checks were meant to prevent you from getting COVID?
- hervature 5y ago
  Do you have so little respect of your fellow man that you think they are incapable of thinking? A big part of the spending was designed to float businesses during lockdowns to “flatten the curve”. The idea being that paying people to stay home would reduce risk of infection. They are pointing out this outcome did not happen.
  - SantalBlush 5y ago
    >Do you have so little respect of your fellow man that you think they are incapable of thinking? Funny, I was thinking the same thing about the above comment I was replying to. >They are pointing out this outcome did not happen. Flattening the curve absolutely does not mean preventing people from getting COVID; it's about lengthening the time horizon in which the population gets infected to reduce strain on the health care system. Moreover, a personal anecdote about getting COVID doesn't imply an overall policy failure. Just because someone let sick people cough in their face doesn't mean they should wax intellectual about macroeconomics.
    - 5y ago

TrispusAttucks 5y ago

> I mean it did make everyone better. The COVID pandemic could have really wiped out a lot of people and we printed money and it helped. Yeah, Helped transfer wealth to the wealthy!