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Efficiency seems to be a real priority w them. I like the simplicity in Deno Deploy also. You literally get a text box and just type in your cloud function. Yo

by dpweb 5y ago

Efficiency seems to be a real priority w them. I like the simplicity in Deno Deploy also. You literally get a text box and just type in your cloud function. You don't have to install cli, set up tooling, for a quick try out.

vlovich123 5y ago
Shameless plug. Disclaimer. I work for Cloudflare. Have you tried Workers? You can do the same in a playground [1]. You can also do the same by deploying a worker through the dashboard UI (including writing the code). Nothing to link though because you need an account. The playground is limited in what it can do because it’s not deployed. You can also use Pages to point at a repo which lets you build a website and server side code (through Pages Functions which actually runs your code in a worker). [1] https://developers.cloudflare.com/workers/learning/playground/ https://developers.cloudflare.com/workers/learning/playgroun...
- dpweb 5y ago
  Yes big fan of Workers and Cf. The only issue it was confusing tying the domain to the worker, but that was a few years ago - last I tried it a couple months ago seemed easier.
  - vlovich123 5y ago
    Yeah, I think the launch of our own registrar service simplified onboarding of custom domains (by default all workers are available on workers.dev domains).
- qbasic_forever 5y ago
  Please purchase Deno the company before dismantling their only source of income through deno deploy--deno the tool is too nice to lose!
  - vlovich123 5y ago
    To be fair, CF workers is much older than Deno by a few years. I don’t see us as dismantling anything - do you blame the wind mill or Don Quixote for tilting at them? This is a very competitive space too. Cloudflare is but one player and I don’t think the ones who do well will focus just on the serverless infrastructure piece. It’s more about having a very complete product story that solves pain points better than anyone else for a price that’s better than anyone else (ie build on a more solid foundation). Since Workers started before Rust was a thing, Deno have a mild advantage on development velocity of the runtime (C++ is more annoying in some ways). They’ve also compounded that velocity by writing most of the runtime in Typescript whereas our runtime is in C++. However, our runtime is far more battle tested at scale which means trickier distributed systems problems solved and more efficiencies of scale (+ c++ has less of a memory hit than TS so it will be interesting to see if they can hit the memory scale needed to support many customers simultaneously). Personally I wish them the best as I think competition is always critical to force you to focus on making a better product.
    - searchableguy 5y ago
      > They’ve also compounded that velocity by writing most of the runtime in Typescript whereas our runtime is in C++ Can you explain more? Deno doesn't use typescript in the runtime. It is rust and pure js (for globals and wrapping bindings). I don't expect their current architecture to be any less efficient from what I know but it may have changed.
      - vlovich123 5y ago
        Yes you’re right. I assumed they’d use TS because they’re going through the effort of making it a first class citizen. Doesn’t matter though because it’s the same (the only way to run TS is to transpile to JS) https://github.com/denoland/deno/blob/main/runtime/js/README.md https://github.com/denoland/deno/blob/main/runtime/js/README... A good chunk of the runtime is in JS, snapshotted and loaded into each isolate. This is a greater memory overhead (and probably slower startup time) than having it written directly in Rust because the snapshot needs to be copied into each isolate. I assume Deno Deploy follows a similar model as Workers where you have many many isolates running concurrently within a process where this overhead may start to matter. If Deno Deploy gets some scale, I’m curious how they’ll tackle. Less interesting is if they start inlining a good chunk of that functionality into Rust. It’s much more interesting if they figure out some way to improve v8 to reduce this cost. There’s some ways potentially if you could create a COW clonable isolate in v8 efficiently and it could be interesting to collaborate with them on it. But that’s hard. Maybe they have alternate plans.

by dpweb 5y ago

vlovich123 5y ago

Shameless plug. Disclaimer. I work for Cloudflare. Have you tried Workers? You can do the same in a playground [1]. You can also do the same by deploying a worker through the dashboard UI (including writing the code). Nothing to link though because you need an account. The playground is limited in what it can do because it’s not deployed. You can also use Pages to point at a repo which lets you build a website and server side code (through Pages Functions which actually runs your code in a worker). [1] https://developers.cloudflare.com/workers/learning/playground/ https://developers.cloudflare.com/workers/learning/playgroun...

dpweb 5y ago
Yes big fan of Workers and Cf. The only issue it was confusing tying the domain to the worker, but that was a few years ago - last I tried it a couple months ago seemed easier.
- vlovich123 5y ago
  Yeah, I think the launch of our own registrar service simplified onboarding of custom domains (by default all workers are available on workers.dev domains).
qbasic_forever 5y ago
Please purchase Deno the company before dismantling their only source of income through deno deploy--deno the tool is too nice to lose!
- vlovich123 5y ago
  To be fair, CF workers is much older than Deno by a few years. I don’t see us as dismantling anything - do you blame the wind mill or Don Quixote for tilting at them? This is a very competitive space too. Cloudflare is but one player and I don’t think the ones who do well will focus just on the serverless infrastructure piece. It’s more about having a very complete product story that solves pain points better than anyone else for a price that’s better than anyone else (ie build on a more solid foundation). Since Workers started before Rust was a thing, Deno have a mild advantage on development velocity of the runtime (C++ is more annoying in some ways). They’ve also compounded that velocity by writing most of the runtime in Typescript whereas our runtime is in C++. However, our runtime is far more battle tested at scale which means trickier distributed systems problems solved and more efficiencies of scale (+ c++ has less of a memory hit than TS so it will be interesting to see if they can hit the memory scale needed to support many customers simultaneously). Personally I wish them the best as I think competition is always critical to force you to focus on making a better product.
  - searchableguy 5y ago
    > They’ve also compounded that velocity by writing most of the runtime in Typescript whereas our runtime is in C++ Can you explain more? Deno doesn't use typescript in the runtime. It is rust and pure js (for globals and wrapping bindings). I don't expect their current architecture to be any less efficient from what I know but it may have changed.
    - vlovich123 5y ago
      Yes you’re right. I assumed they’d use TS because they’re going through the effort of making it a first class citizen. Doesn’t matter though because it’s the same (the only way to run TS is to transpile to JS) https://github.com/denoland/deno/blob/main/runtime/js/README.md https://github.com/denoland/deno/blob/main/runtime/js/README... A good chunk of the runtime is in JS, snapshotted and loaded into each isolate. This is a greater memory overhead (and probably slower startup time) than having it written directly in Rust because the snapshot needs to be copied into each isolate. I assume Deno Deploy follows a similar model as Workers where you have many many isolates running concurrently within a process where this overhead may start to matter. If Deno Deploy gets some scale, I’m curious how they’ll tackle. Less interesting is if they start inlining a good chunk of that functionality into Rust. It’s much more interesting if they figure out some way to improve v8 to reduce this cost. There’s some ways potentially if you could create a COW clonable isolate in v8 efficiently and it could be interesting to collaborate with them on it. But that’s hard. Maybe they have alternate plans.