5 ms·

To the people who are worried about woke-ism going too far: what's your best specific example? What opinion was uttered and what consequence followed?

VirusNewbie 5y ago
https://www.bostonherald.com/2021/10/05/mit-cancels-professor-lecture-after-backlash-against-him-university-cites-distractions/ https://www.bostonherald.com/2021/10/05/mit-cancels-professo... Is one to come to mind. Students and other teachers are deprived of a lecture because a small vocal minority of students are upset that in an unrelated interview, the professor expressed a fairly mainstream view of preferring "equality" over "equity".
CodeGlitch 5y ago
I suppose jk rowling and her views about women's rights and how trans-rights are clashing into them? The consequences are that have been many attempts to cancel her (some successful).
- TheCoelacanth 5y ago
  How has Rowling been "cancelled"? I'm aware of people saying she's bad, but what actual opportunities has she lost as a result?
  - antifa 5y ago
    I wish I was a """cancelled""" billionaire living inside a literal castle.
FFRefresh 5y ago
(casual observer passing through..) A few questions for you personally: 1) When you use the term woke-ism, what are you referring to? 2) What would 'going too far' look like, to you in particular?' 3) In your worldview, is it possible for uttered opinions to have consequences that 'go too far'?
inglor_cz 5y ago
I think it is hard to beat this case, when it comes to absurdity: https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/sdge-worker-fired-over-alleged-racist-gesture-says-he-was-cracking-knuckles/2347414/ https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/sdge-worker-fired-ove... A Mexican driver was fired for stretching his fingers when driving. Somebody thought he was making a white supremacy sign and started the classical social media shitstorm. For a blue collar immigrant worker, losing their job overnight might be pretty serious. They usually have fewer savings to rely on.
- odonnellryan 5y ago
  You're right it is hard to beat that. And mostly everyone can see it is absurd. It is also probably absurd to extrapolate this event to a representation of an entire culture or political affiliation. I would challenge you to ask ten liberal people you know what they think of this.
  - duckmysick 5y ago
    Does it matter what they think? Actions matter more than thoughts. Even the person responsible for this hasn't done anything to stop or reverse the decision. > NBC 7 spoke to the man who originally posted the picture on Twitter. He has since deleted his account and said he may have gotten "spun up" about the interaction and misinterpreted it. He says he never intended for Cafferty to lose his job.
    - odonnellryan 5y ago
      Of course it matters what people think.
boppo1 5y ago
I told a close, longtime friend(A) that a mutual friend(B) was not an avowed, violent white supremacist. Friend A ended our relationship and told me I am a white supremacist. Friend A has also expressed a willingness to commit acts of direct violence against white supremacy. A lost friendship is benign, I guess.
rkk3 5y ago
Academia always gives the best examples... Oberlin Administrators & Bakery incident found the school owing 44 Million in Damages. Honorable mentions USC's Business School for being offended at the Chinese word "Na Ge" Yale Law School for the Native American Law Students Association party invite
noxer 5y ago
Over the years many people pointed to "Real Time with Bill Maher - Ben Affleck, Sam Harris and Bill Maher Debate Radical Islam" as the start of public toxic woke-ism. I suggest watching it if you have not seen it (10min long) but it basically boils down to that if you disagree with someone you can call it racists instead of formulating an argument. There is ofc no evidence that anyone on that show on that day is actually a racists but somehow people just accepted that it was valid to say anyway. The consequences is that people said it more and more and other similar terms whenever it somehow fit. An opinion if it can be made to look like it affects a specific group of people is attacked as being against these people. It basically made a subset of he most pathetic and weak ad hominem fallacies acceptable and thus broke the way people had public discourse.
psyc 5y ago
Only a few years ago it was still acceptable, even in very trans-friendly places, for cis people to have a generalized preference for dating / having sex with cis people. Now the position has shifted and it’s much more likely than before to be considered transphobic. The acceptable thing is to consider each person on an individual basis without regard to whether they are trans. Granted, the only consequence so far seems to be being labeled transphobic, but that itself can have worse consequences if people believe you’re worthy of the label.

VirusNewbie 5y ago

https://www.bostonherald.com/2021/10/05/mit-cancels-professor-lecture-after-backlash-against-him-university-cites-distractions/ https://www.bostonherald.com/2021/10/05/mit-cancels-professo... Is one to come to mind. Students and other teachers are deprived of a lecture because a small vocal minority of students are upset that in an unrelated interview, the professor expressed a fairly mainstream view of preferring "equality" over "equity".

CodeGlitch 5y ago

I suppose jk rowling and her views about women's rights and how trans-rights are clashing into them? The consequences are that have been many attempts to cancel her (some successful).

TheCoelacanth 5y ago
How has Rowling been "cancelled"? I'm aware of people saying she's bad, but what actual opportunities has she lost as a result?
- antifa 5y ago
  I wish I was a """cancelled""" billionaire living inside a literal castle.

FFRefresh 5y ago

(casual observer passing through..) A few questions for you personally: 1) When you use the term woke-ism, what are you referring to? 2) What would 'going too far' look like, to you in particular?' 3) In your worldview, is it possible for uttered opinions to have consequences that 'go too far'?

inglor_cz 5y ago

I think it is hard to beat this case, when it comes to absurdity: https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/sdge-worker-fired-over-alleged-racist-gesture-says-he-was-cracking-knuckles/2347414/ https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/sdge-worker-fired-ove... A Mexican driver was fired for stretching his fingers when driving. Somebody thought he was making a white supremacy sign and started the classical social media shitstorm. For a blue collar immigrant worker, losing their job overnight might be pretty serious. They usually have fewer savings to rely on.

odonnellryan 5y ago
You're right it is hard to beat that. And mostly everyone can see it is absurd. It is also probably absurd to extrapolate this event to a representation of an entire culture or political affiliation. I would challenge you to ask ten liberal people you know what they think of this.
- duckmysick 5y ago
  Does it matter what they think? Actions matter more than thoughts. Even the person responsible for this hasn't done anything to stop or reverse the decision. > NBC 7 spoke to the man who originally posted the picture on Twitter. He has since deleted his account and said he may have gotten "spun up" about the interaction and misinterpreted it. He says he never intended for Cafferty to lose his job.
  - odonnellryan 5y ago
    Of course it matters what people think.

boppo1 5y ago

I told a close, longtime friend(A) that a mutual friend(B) was not an avowed, violent white supremacist. Friend A ended our relationship and told me I am a white supremacist. Friend A has also expressed a willingness to commit acts of direct violence against white supremacy. A lost friendship is benign, I guess.

rkk3 5y ago

Academia always gives the best examples... Oberlin Administrators & Bakery incident found the school owing 44 Million in Damages. Honorable mentions USC's Business School for being offended at the Chinese word "Na Ge" Yale Law School for the Native American Law Students Association party invite

noxer 5y ago

Over the years many people pointed to "Real Time with Bill Maher - Ben Affleck, Sam Harris and Bill Maher Debate Radical Islam" as the start of public toxic woke-ism. I suggest watching it if you have not seen it (10min long) but it basically boils down to that if you disagree with someone you can call it racists instead of formulating an argument. There is ofc no evidence that anyone on that show on that day is actually a racists but somehow people just accepted that it was valid to say anyway. The consequences is that people said it more and more and other similar terms whenever it somehow fit. An opinion if it can be made to look like it affects a specific group of people is attacked as being against these people. It basically made a subset of he most pathetic and weak ad hominem fallacies acceptable and thus broke the way people had public discourse.

psyc 5y ago

Only a few years ago it was still acceptable, even in very trans-friendly places, for cis people to have a generalized preference for dating / having sex with cis people. Now the position has shifted and it’s much more likely than before to be considered transphobic. The acceptable thing is to consider each person on an individual basis without regard to whether they are trans. Granted, the only consequence so far seems to be being labeled transphobic, but that itself can have worse consequences if people believe you’re worthy of the label.