4 ms·

"Move or shut up" -- wow, we've come a long way from "I disapprove of what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

klyrs 5y ago
That ideal hasn't been a reality in my lifetime, nor in my parents'. How do you think non-religious folks were treated in rural parts in the 1960s? Even some cities -- my dad couldn't get a job in Salt Lake City because he wasn't Mormon. In 1917, women were beaten and tortured for picketing for suffrage. Martin Luther King was assassinated for voicing the wrong opinion.
- jl6 5y ago
  The ACLU historically defended many unpopular speech cases, and even now they will fight for some types of unpopular speech, and this was all definitely within our lifetimes.
  - klyrs 5y ago
    "Move or shut up" is not the ACLU's position today, is it?
  - kurthr 5y ago
    Liberal orthodoxy is to defend nazis. Nazi orthodoxy is to drive over liberals.
    - kbelder 5y ago
      Liberal orthodoxy is quite the conservative stance, today.
      - kurthr 5y ago
        Tell that to the ACLU.
- chernevik 5y ago
  So we should just give up on it? It's an ideal, and as with every ideal, we're constantly striving to better meet it.
  - klyrs 5y ago
    Did I say we should give up on it? You said we've come a long way from that. I'm disagreeing with the notion that we've ever been there.
- commandlinefan 5y ago
  > How do you think non-religious folks were treated in rural parts in the 1960s? Poorly. And it was as wrong then as the opposite is today.
  - bradlys 5y ago
    Ah, yes. We’re regularly seeing those atheists out there hanging religious people. Such a shame. Let’s not really act like the secular are anywhere near the way the religious are. Most of the secular just want everyone to have secularism be an option and not have religious choices forced upon anyone.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
fknorangesite 5y ago
> we've come a long way from "I disapprove of what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it." We weren't ever "there" in the first place.

klyrs 5y ago

That ideal hasn't been a reality in my lifetime, nor in my parents'. How do you think non-religious folks were treated in rural parts in the 1960s? Even some cities -- my dad couldn't get a job in Salt Lake City because he wasn't Mormon. In 1917, women were beaten and tortured for picketing for suffrage. Martin Luther King was assassinated for voicing the wrong opinion.

jl6 5y ago
The ACLU historically defended many unpopular speech cases, and even now they will fight for some types of unpopular speech, and this was all definitely within our lifetimes.
- klyrs 5y ago
  "Move or shut up" is not the ACLU's position today, is it?
- kurthr 5y ago
  Liberal orthodoxy is to defend nazis. Nazi orthodoxy is to drive over liberals.
  - kbelder 5y ago
    Liberal orthodoxy is quite the conservative stance, today.
    - kurthr 5y ago
      Tell that to the ACLU.
chernevik 5y ago
So we should just give up on it? It's an ideal, and as with every ideal, we're constantly striving to better meet it.
- klyrs 5y ago
  Did I say we should give up on it? You said we've come a long way from that. I'm disagreeing with the notion that we've ever been there.
commandlinefan 5y ago
> How do you think non-religious folks were treated in rural parts in the 1960s? Poorly. And it was as wrong then as the opposite is today.
- bradlys 5y ago
  Ah, yes. We’re regularly seeing those atheists out there hanging religious people. Such a shame. Let’s not really act like the secular are anywhere near the way the religious are. Most of the secular just want everyone to have secularism be an option and not have religious choices forced upon anyone.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]

fknorangesite 5y ago

> we've come a long way from "I disapprove of what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it." We weren't ever "there" in the first place.