8 ms·

The bait-and-switch, providing it for free then suddenly taking it away.

by benbristow 5y ago

anamexis 5y ago
If by "suddenly" you mean "with 5 months notice."
- rat9988 5y ago
  After many years of service making it hard to remove, and a non negligible cost.
  - KronisLV 5y ago
    > After many years of service making it hard to remove... Would you rather they go under as a company, due to how badly their attempts at monetizing containers have failed in the past and then have Docker Desktop not be maintained at all and have Docker as a whole take a noticeable hit? > ...and a non negligible cost. I'd say that perhaps using either Docker with the CLI, IDE integrations/plugins or using Rancher Desktop (https://rancherdesktop.io/ https://rancherdesktop.io/) are more cost effective alternatives in that case.
  - glenngillen 5y ago
    So the thing that makes this egregious is they let you use it for free for _almost a decade_, while they fumbled finding an alternative monetisation strategy?
    - rat9988 5y ago
      Spin however you want, I am sympathetic toward their situation, it doesn't make it appreciable nonetheless.
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  Those 5 months are irrelevant when companies have invested years of development effort in weaving docker into their workflow. It's a bait and switch, simple as that.
  - anamexis 5y ago
    I would argue it's only bait and switch if they implied that it would always be free.
    - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
      Did they say from the beginning "Hey, it's free for now, but brace yourselves, we'll start charging you at some point in the future"?
      - anamexis 5y ago
        I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure they've been explicit for a quite awhile about Docker Enterprise being their product for organizations. https://web.archive.org/web/20200101044220/https://www.docker.com/products/docker-desktop https://web.archive.org/web/20200101044220/https://www.docke...
      - Isthatablackgsd 5y ago
        Did they say from the beginning * "Hey, it's free forever!" * ? If they made it explicit that it is free forever, then I would agree with your stance that Docker in the wrong. But so far I couldn't find a shred of information indicating that Docker commercial/enterprise account will be free forever. So that didn't put Docker in a wrong. And be realistic of this world, you cannot expect software companies to survive on free account alone forever. Who is paying the servers to keep it up? Docker. Who is providing the support? Docker. Who paying the developers to keep Docker products updated and introduce new features? Docker. How could Docker survive without the cash flow with the free account forever. I mean Google, Microsoft, Chococately, Homebrew/Brew, etc have commercial licenses to cover the cost of their products to keep it free for personal-use users. If you don't see this coming, well I don't what to tell you but that is the cost of doing business.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
        5y ago
thr0wawayf00 5y ago
Did you really, truly think that a product like Docker desktop would stay free forever? This is a fundamental aspect of building software products and companies. I do not understand how in 2022 we still have people hanging out in tech forums like HN that do not understand this. The first objective of a pre-revenue company is to grow as fast as possible and then either get acquired or start generating revenue, which almost always involves marking up their product. And because of the nature of software, it's easy to build POC's and prototypes that half-work today, with the promise of better functionality and integration in the future. But that tomorrow always comes with a cost. Somehow, folks in this industry seem to be convinced that it's OK for them to turn a profit on their value-add software, but not other people. What are software companies supposed to do? Overcharge today for software that doesn't necessarily work right now? What's the model that companies like Docker should use instead?
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  >Did you really, truly think that a product like Docker desktop would stay free forever? You're mistaken here. Nobody has issues paying for software, however people have issues with being baited into a free product to then suddenly be charged after companies get locked in, which is a shitty business practice that needs to be discouraged. Had Docker been transparent from the start that at some point in the future it will cost money, then that would have been fair since this would have been factored into business decisions. You can't just hand out free candy and after people swallow it, you tell them they now have to pay up or throw it up, since you can't expect such good candy to be free. That's basically a scam. Again, it's not about the money, it's about transparency.
  - alar44 5y ago
    Hire a team and build your own fucking software then. That's the other option if building a business around someone else's free work isn't perfect enough for you.
    - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
      I didn't build any business one someone's free work. Your comment is out of place.

The bait-and-switch, providing it for free then suddenly taking it away.

anamexis 5y ago

If by "suddenly" you mean "with 5 months notice."

rat9988 5y ago
After many years of service making it hard to remove, and a non negligible cost.
- KronisLV 5y ago
  > After many years of service making it hard to remove... Would you rather they go under as a company, due to how badly their attempts at monetizing containers have failed in the past and then have Docker Desktop not be maintained at all and have Docker as a whole take a noticeable hit? > ...and a non negligible cost. I'd say that perhaps using either Docker with the CLI, IDE integrations/plugins or using Rancher Desktop (https://rancherdesktop.io/ https://rancherdesktop.io/) are more cost effective alternatives in that case.
- glenngillen 5y ago
  So the thing that makes this egregious is they let you use it for free for _almost a decade_, while they fumbled finding an alternative monetisation strategy?
  - rat9988 5y ago
    Spin however you want, I am sympathetic toward their situation, it doesn't make it appreciable nonetheless.
ChuckNorris89 5y ago
Those 5 months are irrelevant when companies have invested years of development effort in weaving docker into their workflow. It's a bait and switch, simple as that.
- anamexis 5y ago
  I would argue it's only bait and switch if they implied that it would always be free.
  - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
    Did they say from the beginning "Hey, it's free for now, but brace yourselves, we'll start charging you at some point in the future"?
    - anamexis 5y ago
      I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure they've been explicit for a quite awhile about Docker Enterprise being their product for organizations. https://web.archive.org/web/20200101044220/https://www.docker.com/products/docker-desktop https://web.archive.org/web/20200101044220/https://www.docke...
    - Isthatablackgsd 5y ago
      Did they say from the beginning * "Hey, it's free forever!" * ? If they made it explicit that it is free forever, then I would agree with your stance that Docker in the wrong. But so far I couldn't find a shred of information indicating that Docker commercial/enterprise account will be free forever. So that didn't put Docker in a wrong. And be realistic of this world, you cannot expect software companies to survive on free account alone forever. Who is paying the servers to keep it up? Docker. Who is providing the support? Docker. Who paying the developers to keep Docker products updated and introduce new features? Docker. How could Docker survive without the cash flow with the free account forever. I mean Google, Microsoft, Chococately, Homebrew/Brew, etc have commercial licenses to cover the cost of their products to keep it free for personal-use users. If you don't see this coming, well I don't what to tell you but that is the cost of doing business.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - 5y ago

thr0wawayf00 5y ago

Did you really, truly think that a product like Docker desktop would stay free forever? This is a fundamental aspect of building software products and companies. I do not understand how in 2022 we still have people hanging out in tech forums like HN that do not understand this. The first objective of a pre-revenue company is to grow as fast as possible and then either get acquired or start generating revenue, which almost always involves marking up their product. And because of the nature of software, it's easy to build POC's and prototypes that half-work today, with the promise of better functionality and integration in the future. But that tomorrow always comes with a cost. Somehow, folks in this industry seem to be convinced that it's OK for them to turn a profit on their value-add software, but not other people. What are software companies supposed to do? Overcharge today for software that doesn't necessarily work right now? What's the model that companies like Docker should use instead?

ChuckNorris89 5y ago
>Did you really, truly think that a product like Docker desktop would stay free forever? You're mistaken here. Nobody has issues paying for software, however people have issues with being baited into a free product to then suddenly be charged after companies get locked in, which is a shitty business practice that needs to be discouraged. Had Docker been transparent from the start that at some point in the future it will cost money, then that would have been fair since this would have been factored into business decisions. You can't just hand out free candy and after people swallow it, you tell them they now have to pay up or throw it up, since you can't expect such good candy to be free. That's basically a scam. Again, it's not about the money, it's about transparency.
- alar44 5y ago
  Hire a team and build your own fucking software then. That's the other option if building a business around someone else's free work isn't perfect enough for you.
  - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
    I didn't build any business one someone's free work. Your comment is out of place.