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>"You will spend year teaching someone then he leaves for another company who gave him 20% rase." If you hire decent developer and it takes a year to teach the

by FpUser 5y ago

>"You will spend year teaching someone then he leaves for another company who gave him 20% rase." If you hire decent developer and it takes a year to teach them for example react to be productive the problem is not with the developer. Normal developer should be reasonable productive in a matter of days. Ok give it a month. And it does not require tutor hanging over the shoulder. The problem is with you as you've just hired someone who's at the moment unqualified as a developer in general.

bseidensticker 5y ago
IDK what your experience is, but in my experience at Google it would take about 6 months before I could consider someone "reasonably productive". Or maybe it takes about 6 months before I'm confident that they are actually underperforming. A week is just enough time to get a cursory understanding of the product and tooling and fix a newbie bug.
- native_samples 5y ago
  Google is not at all a reasonable proxy for the rest of the industry. It has an almost entirely parallel infrastructure that bears little resemblence to what everyone else learns and uses. Google has notoriously high training times for this reason and always did.
  - bseidensticker 5y ago
    I realize that, but 1 month vs 6 months? It's not just that the infrastructure is all different, ramping up on a codebase is extremely time consuming itself. You're going to have that at any other large tech company. If it's a tiny startup on mostly greenfield stuff then sure, but that's also not a reasonable proxy for the rest of the industry.
    - native_samples 5y ago
      Trust me, Google is just weird. I used to work there. When I joined SRE it took 3 months for me to be able to do anything useful at all, and another three months after that before I was really able to function on my own without needing to constantly look things up or ask for help. After Google I joined a startup where I built two new products from scratch, including hiring most of the team myself. On boarding time was about a week and that included learning a new programming language from scratch (Kotlin, which is in fairness, easy to learn). This remained true true even after several years where the codebase had become quite large. On-boarding time never really changed for programmers of equivalent skill. Ramp-up time in most normal businesses and most normal codebases is measured in weeks, not six months.
sarchertech 5y ago
In most cases that I’ve seen, it’s not React that’s difficult to ramp up on, it’s the overly complicated codebase. Now you could make an argument that React/Rails/whatever shares some of the blame for encouraging/allowing the state of the code.
- FpUser 5y ago
  >"In most cases that I’ve seen, it’s not React that’s difficult to ramp up on, it’s the overly complicated codebase." Well the developers you want to hire would know zilch about that codebase so you have to train them anyways. And after you do they will not leave because for greener pasture with that new knowledge since nobody else is using that codebase internally.

by FpUser 5y ago

bseidensticker 5y ago

IDK what your experience is, but in my experience at Google it would take about 6 months before I could consider someone "reasonably productive". Or maybe it takes about 6 months before I'm confident that they are actually underperforming. A week is just enough time to get a cursory understanding of the product and tooling and fix a newbie bug.

native_samples 5y ago
Google is not at all a reasonable proxy for the rest of the industry. It has an almost entirely parallel infrastructure that bears little resemblence to what everyone else learns and uses. Google has notoriously high training times for this reason and always did.
- bseidensticker 5y ago
  I realize that, but 1 month vs 6 months? It's not just that the infrastructure is all different, ramping up on a codebase is extremely time consuming itself. You're going to have that at any other large tech company. If it's a tiny startup on mostly greenfield stuff then sure, but that's also not a reasonable proxy for the rest of the industry.
  - native_samples 5y ago
    Trust me, Google is just weird. I used to work there. When I joined SRE it took 3 months for me to be able to do anything useful at all, and another three months after that before I was really able to function on my own without needing to constantly look things up or ask for help. After Google I joined a startup where I built two new products from scratch, including hiring most of the team myself. On boarding time was about a week and that included learning a new programming language from scratch (Kotlin, which is in fairness, easy to learn). This remained true true even after several years where the codebase had become quite large. On-boarding time never really changed for programmers of equivalent skill. Ramp-up time in most normal businesses and most normal codebases is measured in weeks, not six months.

sarchertech 5y ago

In most cases that I’ve seen, it’s not React that’s difficult to ramp up on, it’s the overly complicated codebase. Now you could make an argument that React/Rails/whatever shares some of the blame for encouraging/allowing the state of the code.

FpUser 5y ago
>"In most cases that I’ve seen, it’s not React that’s difficult to ramp up on, it’s the overly complicated codebase." Well the developers you want to hire would know zilch about that codebase so you have to train them anyways. And after you do they will not leave because for greener pasture with that new knowledge since nobody else is using that codebase internally.