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Hiring is certainly very important. But I disagree that JavaScript developer availability is the most important criteria in this decision. After all, we're talk

Hiring is certainly very important. But I disagree that JavaScript developer availability is the most important criteria in this decision. After all, we're talking about "quality developers" not script kiddies. Experienced developers will hit the beach running with Dart. It's just another C-style language like many others that experienced developers will have used extensively.

lpapez 5y ago
Calling Dart "C-style language" sounds very weird. The curly-brace syntax is the only parallel I can draw between the two... What other similarities do you see?
- meetups323 5y ago
  Clearly the parallel is that types come before identifiers in declaration contents.
- a4isms 5y ago
  Dart is absolutely a C-style language.* ——— * In all the ways that don't matter.
  - jamonholmgren 5y ago
    I suppose this is going to become part of the HN lexicon now...
    - a4isms 5y ago
      In a rant that was (at one time) legendary, the late Erik Naggum responded to the argument that XML was nothing more than another way to write s-exprs, and if you like s-exprs, the only quibble you have with XML is the syntax. Erik wrote, They are not identical. The aspects you are willing to ignore are more important than the aspects you are willing to accept. He went on to write a great deal more that I am not willing to quote, but at its core was this same argument: Sometimes two things seem very similar, but the ways in which they are similar are unimportant, and the ways in which they differ are profound. My guess is that little aphorisms like this will come into and out of fashion over and over again, because this argument is one we will have over and over again. https://www.schnada.de/grapt/eriknaggum-xmlrant.html https://www.schnada.de/grapt/eriknaggum-xmlrant.html
Fauntleroy 5y ago
Yet another entry in the completely unnecessary and banal annals of "dumping on js developers for no good reason".
- philtar 5y ago
evan_ 5y ago
Did you just fall through a time portal from 2008? JavaScript hasn't been the exclusive domain of "script kiddies" for a loooong time.
- a4isms 5y ago
  What's very interesting about your comment is this: Let's say that JavaScrip was a language for "kiddies" in 2008. Let's call them people in the age group 17-22. That was fourteen years ago, and those "kiddies" are now 31-36. In 2008, they were in entry-level positions. Today, they have over a decade of industry experience and are lead engineers, engineering managers, &c. It's not like they "grew up and switched to adult languages." They brought JavaScript with them, and as they recognized its shortcomings... They fixed the language and its ecosystem. (For some debatable definition of "fixed," but the general point is that even if it was a language for script kiddies a decade and a half ago, those kiddies grew up and to a certain extent, the language grew up with them.)
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - evan_ 5y ago
    I kinda got the year wrong, 1998 would've been a better thing to say. I was working on multiple shipping products using JavaScript in 2008.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - a4isms 5y ago
      Exactly, add another decade and we're talking about the original Script Kiddies being seasoned executives, or possibly even having cashed out a startup or two and are now investing in startups via the Founder-to-VC pipeline.

lpapez 5y ago

Calling Dart "C-style language" sounds very weird. The curly-brace syntax is the only parallel I can draw between the two... What other similarities do you see?

meetups323 5y ago
Clearly the parallel is that types come before identifiers in declaration contents.
a4isms 5y ago
Dart is absolutely a C-style language.* ——— * In all the ways that don't matter.
- jamonholmgren 5y ago
  I suppose this is going to become part of the HN lexicon now...
  - a4isms 5y ago
    In a rant that was (at one time) legendary, the late Erik Naggum responded to the argument that XML was nothing more than another way to write s-exprs, and if you like s-exprs, the only quibble you have with XML is the syntax. Erik wrote, They are not identical. The aspects you are willing to ignore are more important than the aspects you are willing to accept. He went on to write a great deal more that I am not willing to quote, but at its core was this same argument: Sometimes two things seem very similar, but the ways in which they are similar are unimportant, and the ways in which they differ are profound. My guess is that little aphorisms like this will come into and out of fashion over and over again, because this argument is one we will have over and over again. https://www.schnada.de/grapt/eriknaggum-xmlrant.html https://www.schnada.de/grapt/eriknaggum-xmlrant.html

Fauntleroy 5y ago

Yet another entry in the completely unnecessary and banal annals of "dumping on js developers for no good reason".

philtar 5y ago

evan_ 5y ago

Did you just fall through a time portal from 2008? JavaScript hasn't been the exclusive domain of "script kiddies" for a loooong time.

a4isms 5y ago
What's very interesting about your comment is this: Let's say that JavaScrip was a language for "kiddies" in 2008. Let's call them people in the age group 17-22. That was fourteen years ago, and those "kiddies" are now 31-36. In 2008, they were in entry-level positions. Today, they have over a decade of industry experience and are lead engineers, engineering managers, &c. It's not like they "grew up and switched to adult languages." They brought JavaScript with them, and as they recognized its shortcomings... They fixed the language and its ecosystem. (For some debatable definition of "fixed," but the general point is that even if it was a language for script kiddies a decade and a half ago, those kiddies grew up and to a certain extent, the language grew up with them.)
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- evan_ 5y ago
  I kinda got the year wrong, 1998 would've been a better thing to say. I was working on multiple shipping products using JavaScript in 2008.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - a4isms 5y ago
    Exactly, add another decade and we're talking about the original Script Kiddies being seasoned executives, or possibly even having cashed out a startup or two and are now investing in startups via the Founder-to-VC pipeline.