4 ms·

I think this is more of a counter-example of why politicizing murder and lawlessness is a stupid idea. The conservatives in the US constantly bash Democratic ra

I think this is more of a counter-example of why politicizing murder and lawlessness is a stupid idea. The conservatives in the US constantly bash Democratic ran cities as murderous hell-holes and places no person in their right mind would want to go. But in reality, it's just more falsehoods; the issue is far more complex than just correlating your governor or mayor's political affiliation.

giantg2 5y ago
If this was actually a counter example, wouldn't they be looking at the cities within the state as well as distribution throughout the state? For example, rural PA is much different than Philly, Pittsburgh, and other cities in leadership and policy. Not sure about murder rate, but would guess it's mostly similar. That said, it would be much better if they actually got into the causes or contributors, like the various socioeconomic factors that correlate with murder/crime.
sudden_dystopia 5y ago
No person in their right mind would want to go wandering around the south side of Chicago. That is not a falsehood. It is more complex than politics, but the murderous hell hole part is at least partially true.
- long_time_gone 5y ago
  > No person in their right mind would want to go wandering around the south side of Chicago. Tell me you've never been on the Southside of Chicago without saying you've never been on the Southside of Chicago. Nobody ever walks around UofC campus, or to White Sox games, or the Museum of Science and Industry, or Beverly, or Mt. Greenwood, or Illinois Tech, or Chinatown, or Big Marsh, or Little Village, or Pilsen, or Promontory Point, or any of the many beaches, etc. Good point. > That is not a falsehood. Yes it is, you have no idea what you are talking about.
  - jjulius 5y ago
    Right? I mean, I've never even been to Chicago myself, but one glance at Wikipedia[0]... >South Side neighborhoods such as Armour Square, Back of the Yards, Bridgeport, and Pullman host more blue collar and middle-class residents, while Hyde Park, the Jackson Park Highlands District, Kenwood, Beverly, Mount Greenwood, and west Morgan Park feature affluent and upper-middle class residents. ... and I can't help but be incredibly confused as to why those "affluent and upper-middle class residents" would choose to live in an area where they wouldn't "in their right mind ... want to go wandering around" in. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Side,_Chicago https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Side,_Chicago
  - giantg2 5y ago
    No experience with Chicago here. I can say that the general sentiment that there are areas that you don't want to be in, especially after dark, is a valid one. Personal experiences validate this for areas like north Philly. But to your point, some areas within those general areas are not too bad, like Temple's campus.
    - long_time_gone 5y ago
      But the statement itself essentially proves the thesis of the report.
      - giantg2 5y ago
        Can you explain what the thesis is and how this statement validates that?
        long_time_gone 5y ago
        > Can you explain what the thesis is and how this statement validates that? Sure, it is the first sentence in the "Takeaways" section, at the very top of the article. "The rate of murders in the US has gone up at an alarming rate. But, despite a media narrative to the contrary, this is a problem that afflicts Republican-run cities and states as much or more than the Democratic bastions." The comment you are referring to ("No person in their right mind would want to go wandering around the south side of Chicago. That is not a falsehood.") is evidence that the "media narrative" mentioned and referenced in the article has indeed taken hold. Chicago was even one of the examples the article used. Any form of research would quickly identify that the entire South Side of Chicago is not a wasteland where nobody willingly walks around (let alone live). That the commenter felt it was so obviously true speaks to the level of validation.
- cbsmith 5y ago
  The quibble is with the narrative that the south side of Chicago is a bad place to go wandering around because of the political party affiliated with the leaders of Chicago or Illinois would be. Similarly, the narrative that crime went up in 2020 because of local governance choices predominantly made by a political party is similarly flawed. On the flip side, you can better understand why Republicans might be more perceptive about a significant increase in crime in 2020...
- alexk307 5y ago
  Did you read the article? Or even my comment? Or you just wanted to add your opinion about a specific area to a discussion of facts about a whole country?

giantg2 5y ago

If this was actually a counter example, wouldn't they be looking at the cities within the state as well as distribution throughout the state? For example, rural PA is much different than Philly, Pittsburgh, and other cities in leadership and policy. Not sure about murder rate, but would guess it's mostly similar. That said, it would be much better if they actually got into the causes or contributors, like the various socioeconomic factors that correlate with murder/crime.

sudden_dystopia 5y ago

No person in their right mind would want to go wandering around the south side of Chicago. That is not a falsehood. It is more complex than politics, but the murderous hell hole part is at least partially true.

long_time_gone 5y ago
> No person in their right mind would want to go wandering around the south side of Chicago. Tell me you've never been on the Southside of Chicago without saying you've never been on the Southside of Chicago. Nobody ever walks around UofC campus, or to White Sox games, or the Museum of Science and Industry, or Beverly, or Mt. Greenwood, or Illinois Tech, or Chinatown, or Big Marsh, or Little Village, or Pilsen, or Promontory Point, or any of the many beaches, etc. Good point. > That is not a falsehood. Yes it is, you have no idea what you are talking about.
- jjulius 5y ago
  Right? I mean, I've never even been to Chicago myself, but one glance at Wikipedia[0]... >South Side neighborhoods such as Armour Square, Back of the Yards, Bridgeport, and Pullman host more blue collar and middle-class residents, while Hyde Park, the Jackson Park Highlands District, Kenwood, Beverly, Mount Greenwood, and west Morgan Park feature affluent and upper-middle class residents. ... and I can't help but be incredibly confused as to why those "affluent and upper-middle class residents" would choose to live in an area where they wouldn't "in their right mind ... want to go wandering around" in. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Side,_Chicago https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Side,_Chicago
- giantg2 5y ago
  No experience with Chicago here. I can say that the general sentiment that there are areas that you don't want to be in, especially after dark, is a valid one. Personal experiences validate this for areas like north Philly. But to your point, some areas within those general areas are not too bad, like Temple's campus.
  - long_time_gone 5y ago
    But the statement itself essentially proves the thesis of the report.
    - giantg2 5y ago
      Can you explain what the thesis is and how this statement validates that?
      - long_time_gone 5y ago
        > Can you explain what the thesis is and how this statement validates that? Sure, it is the first sentence in the "Takeaways" section, at the very top of the article. "The rate of murders in the US has gone up at an alarming rate. But, despite a media narrative to the contrary, this is a problem that afflicts Republican-run cities and states as much or more than the Democratic bastions." The comment you are referring to ("No person in their right mind would want to go wandering around the south side of Chicago. That is not a falsehood.") is evidence that the "media narrative" mentioned and referenced in the article has indeed taken hold. Chicago was even one of the examples the article used. Any form of research would quickly identify that the entire South Side of Chicago is not a wasteland where nobody willingly walks around (let alone live). That the commenter felt it was so obviously true speaks to the level of validation.
cbsmith 5y ago
The quibble is with the narrative that the south side of Chicago is a bad place to go wandering around because of the political party affiliated with the leaders of Chicago or Illinois would be. Similarly, the narrative that crime went up in 2020 because of local governance choices predominantly made by a political party is similarly flawed. On the flip side, you can better understand why Republicans might be more perceptive about a significant increase in crime in 2020...
alexk307 5y ago
Did you read the article? Or even my comment? Or you just wanted to add your opinion about a specific area to a discussion of facts about a whole country?