6 ms·

First Ever Eco-Certified Computer Program: KDE's Popular PDF Reader Okular

74 points by jboynyc 5y ago

WaxedChewbacca 5y ago
ognarb 5y ago
It's very nice thate the Blue Angel certificate recognize that user autonomy (uninstability, offline capabilities, freedom from advertising) is also very important for writing sustainable software. https://produktinfo.blauer-engel.de/uploads/criteriafile/en/DE-UZ%20215-202001-en-Criteria-2020-02-13.pdf https://produktinfo.blauer-engel.de/uploads/criteriafile/en/...
gspr 5y ago
I stopped using KDE along time ago (not because it's bad, but because I realized I'm far more productive in Sway). Two KDE programs that I still use daily are Okular and Dolphin. Okular is, in my opinion, the perfect PDF viewer.
- tmerse 5y ago
  You might want to have a look at kronkhite if you are looking for a KDE Tiling-Window-Manager. I came from awesome-wm and never looked back. [1]: https://github.com/esjeon/krohnkite https://github.com/esjeon/krohnkite
  - eliaspro 5y ago
    Also check out Bismuth which is more advanced and really well integrated: https://bismuth-forge.github.io/bismuth/ https://bismuth-forge.github.io/bismuth/
- dtx1 5y ago
  Sway really is a disease, once you go into it, you cannot ever go back to a floating DE. It's just so fucking comfy
- wolverine876 5y ago
  Krita, the drawing program, has been great (in limited experience).
- HKH2 5y ago
  Atril seems much faster than Okular.
greatgib 5y ago
I will call the "bullshit alert" for this.
- smoldesu 5y ago
  For which part? I've found Okular to be great, dareisay better than the PDF reader MacOS and Windows ship with.
- RobertMiller 5y ago
  I agree, specifically this part: > "In 2020 the German Environment Agency extended the award criteria to include software products, which was the first in the world of environmental certifications to link transparency and user autonomy with sustainability. In order to obtain the ecolabel, a software product must demonstrate that it meets a list of stringent requirements considered critical for the environment over the product’s life cycle. These include providing transparency in the energy consumption when using the software – for example, in the case of Okular, while reading or annotating a PDF – and the ability to run the application on hardware at least five years old. The Blue Angel award criteria also include a list of user autonomy requirements which reduce the environmental impact of software." Okular is great and I'm a big fan of Free software generally, but the extension of this environmentalism award to encompass Free software values seems like a well-intentioned stretch and that 'runs on 5 year old hardware' thing is a joke. I'm hard pressed to think of any software that can't run on a computer from 2017. They might as well give the certification to the rest of all the Linux desktop software too. That won't happen I'm sure; Okular got it because KDE has organized an effort to get such certifications (https://eco.kde.org/#be4foss https://eco.kde.org/#be4foss). Free software authors/groups that don't have the time/energy to seek the certification doubtlessly won't receive it. So Okular has this certification and Envice does not. Does this actually tell you anything about which of the two is more ecological? I don't think so, it isn't safe to assume just from this certification that Okular is more efficient than Envice. But if an ecological certification isn't useful for such product comparisons, then what exactly is it for?
  - ognarb 5y ago
    Some KDE developers indeed put a lot of time to get the certification, but this is not only for bureaucratic reasons. A lot of measurements needed to be done[1], this leads to various patches to improve the energy efficiency of some parts of the code. Also Be4FOSS is not only for KDE, but can also benefices other projects [2] [1]: https://invent.kde.org/teams/eco/blue-angel-application/-/blob/master/applications/okular/de-uz-215-eng-annex-3-okular-idle.pdf https://invent.kde.org/teams/eco/blue-angel-application/-/bl... [2]: https://invent.kde.org/teams/eco/be4foss https://invent.kde.org/teams/eco/be4foss
jrm4 5y ago
I really dig this idea. I also understand why a lot of folks around here will be subconsciously hostile to it. But yes, "user autonomy" leads to "sticky in a good way" software. This, in a very healthy way, runs counter to "updating software for no good reason," which of course is the cause of pretty much all the e-waste.
- jlg23 5y ago
  > This, in a very healthy way, runs counter to "updating software for no good reason," which of course is the cause of pretty much all the e-waste. You lost me there. Most "e-waste" is, IMHO, produced by inefficient software that is occupying a whole server farm where an efficient implementation will run on your router and still have enough resources to spare to brew a coffee. See thepiratebay, they disabled, IIRC, more than half of their servers when they switched to open tracker.
  - jrm4 5y ago
    Sure. And how are you going to use that software if you don't have "permission" or the meaningful ability to run whatever you want on the machines you own? It goes all the way.
NobodyReport 5y ago
Unfortunately I received a Mac last year for free and have been hooked. So sadly I can't use Okular. Weird there is no Mac support. Have noticed many things are now "Just 3.99"...etc Guess that's my world now.
- ognarb 5y ago
  There is actually a nightly build of Okular for macOS: https://binary-factory.kde.org/job/Okular_Nightly_macos/ https://binary-factory.kde.org/job/Okular_Nightly_macos/ But it needs some help with the CI since the last successful build was from November 2021
heurisko 5y ago
One app that is decidedly not "eco" is YouTube on the phone. Google holds your phone's battery to ransom, if you don't pay to use YouTube, as it doesn't allow you to turn off the screen (I can listen to adverts too you know, if that's what they're worried about). Given the number of Android phones there are, I think that "feature" must have wasted an amazing amount of electricity and contributed to wearing-out batteries. Rather than eco-certifying apps, some apps could be eco-shamed.
- entropyie 5y ago
  FYI, a good solution for youtube on Android is FireFox + "Video Background Play Fix" https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/video-background-play-fix/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/video-backgro... or the NewPipe App...
  - R0b0t1 5y ago
    Everyone who can please go find the bug report where users were outraged about the page visibility API and comment. If Firefox can block popups for the user's benefit, it can mess with the page visibility for the user's benefit.
    - tentacleuno 5y ago
      There's one bug report[0] which I found by searching their BigZilla[1], but that was last active 6 years ago... [0]: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1246485 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1246485 [1]: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=Page+visibility https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=Page+vi...
- dahfizz 5y ago
  What do you watch on YouTube that you want to be able to turn your screen off for? I pay for YouTube red but I literally never use this feature. Likewise I don't expect to be able to turn off my TV screen while listening to Netflix...

74 points by jboynyc 5y ago

It's very nice thate the Blue Angel certificate recognize that user autonomy (uninstability, offline capabilities, freedom from advertising) is also very important for writing sustainable software. https://produktinfo.blauer-engel.de/uploads/criteriafile/en/DE-UZ%20215-202001-en-Criteria-2020-02-13.pdf https://produktinfo.blauer-engel.de/uploads/criteriafile/en/...

gspr 5y ago

I stopped using KDE along time ago (not because it's bad, but because I realized I'm far more productive in Sway). Two KDE programs that I still use daily are Okular and Dolphin. Okular is, in my opinion, the perfect PDF viewer.

tmerse 5y ago
You might want to have a look at kronkhite if you are looking for a KDE Tiling-Window-Manager. I came from awesome-wm and never looked back. [1]: https://github.com/esjeon/krohnkite https://github.com/esjeon/krohnkite
- eliaspro 5y ago
  Also check out Bismuth which is more advanced and really well integrated: https://bismuth-forge.github.io/bismuth/ https://bismuth-forge.github.io/bismuth/
dtx1 5y ago
Sway really is a disease, once you go into it, you cannot ever go back to a floating DE. It's just so fucking comfy
wolverine876 5y ago
Krita, the drawing program, has been great (in limited experience).
HKH2 5y ago
Atril seems much faster than Okular.

greatgib 5y ago

I will call the "bullshit alert" for this.

smoldesu 5y ago
For which part? I've found Okular to be great, dareisay better than the PDF reader MacOS and Windows ship with.
RobertMiller 5y ago
I agree, specifically this part: > "In 2020 the German Environment Agency extended the award criteria to include software products, which was the first in the world of environmental certifications to link transparency and user autonomy with sustainability. In order to obtain the ecolabel, a software product must demonstrate that it meets a list of stringent requirements considered critical for the environment over the product’s life cycle. These include providing transparency in the energy consumption when using the software – for example, in the case of Okular, while reading or annotating a PDF – and the ability to run the application on hardware at least five years old. The Blue Angel award criteria also include a list of user autonomy requirements which reduce the environmental impact of software." Okular is great and I'm a big fan of Free software generally, but the extension of this environmentalism award to encompass Free software values seems like a well-intentioned stretch and that 'runs on 5 year old hardware' thing is a joke. I'm hard pressed to think of any software that can't run on a computer from 2017. They might as well give the certification to the rest of all the Linux desktop software too. That won't happen I'm sure; Okular got it because KDE has organized an effort to get such certifications (https://eco.kde.org/#be4foss https://eco.kde.org/#be4foss). Free software authors/groups that don't have the time/energy to seek the certification doubtlessly won't receive it. So Okular has this certification and Envice does not. Does this actually tell you anything about which of the two is more ecological? I don't think so, it isn't safe to assume just from this certification that Okular is more efficient than Envice. But if an ecological certification isn't useful for such product comparisons, then what exactly is it for?
- ognarb 5y ago
  Some KDE developers indeed put a lot of time to get the certification, but this is not only for bureaucratic reasons. A lot of measurements needed to be done[1], this leads to various patches to improve the energy efficiency of some parts of the code. Also Be4FOSS is not only for KDE, but can also benefices other projects [2] [1]: https://invent.kde.org/teams/eco/blue-angel-application/-/blob/master/applications/okular/de-uz-215-eng-annex-3-okular-idle.pdf https://invent.kde.org/teams/eco/blue-angel-application/-/bl... [2]: https://invent.kde.org/teams/eco/be4foss https://invent.kde.org/teams/eco/be4foss

jrm4 5y ago

I really dig this idea. I also understand why a lot of folks around here will be subconsciously hostile to it. But yes, "user autonomy" leads to "sticky in a good way" software. This, in a very healthy way, runs counter to "updating software for no good reason," which of course is the cause of pretty much all the e-waste.

jlg23 5y ago
> This, in a very healthy way, runs counter to "updating software for no good reason," which of course is the cause of pretty much all the e-waste. You lost me there. Most "e-waste" is, IMHO, produced by inefficient software that is occupying a whole server farm where an efficient implementation will run on your router and still have enough resources to spare to brew a coffee. See thepiratebay, they disabled, IIRC, more than half of their servers when they switched to open tracker.
- jrm4 5y ago
  Sure. And how are you going to use that software if you don't have "permission" or the meaningful ability to run whatever you want on the machines you own? It goes all the way.

NobodyReport 5y ago

Unfortunately I received a Mac last year for free and have been hooked. So sadly I can't use Okular. Weird there is no Mac support. Have noticed many things are now "Just 3.99"...etc Guess that's my world now.

ognarb 5y ago
There is actually a nightly build of Okular for macOS: https://binary-factory.kde.org/job/Okular_Nightly_macos/ https://binary-factory.kde.org/job/Okular_Nightly_macos/ But it needs some help with the CI since the last successful build was from November 2021

heurisko 5y ago

One app that is decidedly not "eco" is YouTube on the phone. Google holds your phone's battery to ransom, if you don't pay to use YouTube, as it doesn't allow you to turn off the screen (I can listen to adverts too you know, if that's what they're worried about). Given the number of Android phones there are, I think that "feature" must have wasted an amazing amount of electricity and contributed to wearing-out batteries. Rather than eco-certifying apps, some apps could be eco-shamed.

entropyie 5y ago
FYI, a good solution for youtube on Android is FireFox + "Video Background Play Fix" https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/video-background-play-fix/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/video-backgro... or the NewPipe App...
- R0b0t1 5y ago
  Everyone who can please go find the bug report where users were outraged about the page visibility API and comment. If Firefox can block popups for the user's benefit, it can mess with the page visibility for the user's benefit.
  - tentacleuno 5y ago
    There's one bug report[0] which I found by searching their BigZilla[1], but that was last active 6 years ago... [0]: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1246485 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1246485 [1]: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=Page+visibility https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=Page+vi...
dahfizz 5y ago
What do you watch on YouTube that you want to be able to turn your screen off for? I pay for YouTube red but I literally never use this feature. Likewise I don't expect to be able to turn off my TV screen while listening to Netflix...