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And it's only going to get worse Unless you take to the streets. They can't arrest you all (or maybe they can, idk)

unmole 5y ago
> Unless you take to the streets. I don't understand why keyboard warriors in liberal democracies seem to think that Putin is going to be toppled by street protests. As terrible as Putin is, he is objectively less terrible than Stalin. Yet, nobody was able to topple him.
- sterlind 5y ago
  Arab Spring was street protests. results varied widely from Tunisia to Egypt to Syria, but in all cases protests led to massive change.
  - unmole 5y ago
    Last I checked Assad was still in power. This is despite significant foreign involvement. Is NATO going to start funding armed opposition in Russia?
    - 2rsf 5y ago
      (ex Israeli here) I actually don't think Syria is a good example for the Arab Spring,they were attacked by ISIS and Curds, Iran got involved on the way and then Russia, the US and Israel through some more fire into the mix. It was not an attempt to throw Aasad and start a democracy.
      - unmole 5y ago
        The street protests and the initial armed insurrection most definitely claimed they wanted to bring down Assad. How much of it was motivated by a a desire for democracy versus the resentment of the Sunni majority against perceived Alawite domination, I don't know.
  - csomar 5y ago
    > Arab Spring was street protests. results varied widely from Tunisia to Egypt to Syria, but in all cases protests led to massive change. With Tunisia going back to authoritarianism, Libya/Yemen at war, Egypt already back to military control and Syria holding the status quo.... I'm not sure what massive change you are talking about.
  - hnov 5y ago
    I would not want an Arab spring, give me a dictatorship over an endless low level conflict between warring factions any day.
  - wara23arish 5y ago
    Almost all of the arab spring countries except for Tunisia maybe are worse off, they are significantly worse off too. Literal slave market in Libya for example. People dont seem to understand that foreign interventions are complicated seem to almost always go wrong. Its not as simple as oh Saddam is a dictator, get rid of him, all done we good. What pisses me off the most is that these gov agents face no consequences for any failed interventions. They dont really care if people die as a result, cities are leveled refugees etc.. they’ll move on to get a promotion in the white house somewhere else and work on other stuff. I find it disgusting and dehumanizing. Apologies for the rant.
jim-jim-jim 5y ago
> Unless you take to the streets. They can't arrest you all. This is really out of touch coming from childless Western men with email jobs. Revolutionary ideas guys.
- TheAlchemist 5y ago
  As an Eastern European, I disagree. This guy is right. It has been done before (Solidarnosc) and it can be done again.
DoItToMe81 5y ago
Russia is a dictatorship. The true constituents of Russia, the military, the oligarchs, all for now seem to unconditionally support Putin. Publicly demonstrating in a country known for violently ending public demonstrations is only going to get people needlessly killed. There are many other ways to dissent.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > Publicly demonstrating in a country known for violently ending public demonstrations is only going to get people needlessly killed. Public activism (well targeted) is how you turn those things, particularly the military rank-and-file. I mean, it's not like the same thing wasn't true of the Tsarist regime when the various forces opposed to it started demonstrating.
Tabular-Iceberg 5y ago
The question is whether "you all" actually feel strongly about getting rid of Putin, or even having relations with the west. When Jacob Zuma was jailed, people went on pro-corruption riots. Pro-corruption, not anti-corruption. It's possible the same thing will happen in Russia if Putin is toppled too. Protesters may not only have to deal with the police, they might also have to deal with an angry pro-Putin lynch mob.

> Unless you take to the streets. I don't understand why keyboard warriors in liberal democracies seem to think that Putin is going to be toppled by street protests. As terrible as Putin is, he is objectively less terrible than Stalin. Yet, nobody was able to topple him.

sterlind 5y ago
Arab Spring was street protests. results varied widely from Tunisia to Egypt to Syria, but in all cases protests led to massive change.
- unmole 5y ago
  Last I checked Assad was still in power. This is despite significant foreign involvement. Is NATO going to start funding armed opposition in Russia?
  - 2rsf 5y ago
    (ex Israeli here) I actually don't think Syria is a good example for the Arab Spring,they were attacked by ISIS and Curds, Iran got involved on the way and then Russia, the US and Israel through some more fire into the mix. It was not an attempt to throw Aasad and start a democracy.
    - unmole 5y ago
      The street protests and the initial armed insurrection most definitely claimed they wanted to bring down Assad. How much of it was motivated by a a desire for democracy versus the resentment of the Sunni majority against perceived Alawite domination, I don't know.
- csomar 5y ago
  > Arab Spring was street protests. results varied widely from Tunisia to Egypt to Syria, but in all cases protests led to massive change. With Tunisia going back to authoritarianism, Libya/Yemen at war, Egypt already back to military control and Syria holding the status quo.... I'm not sure what massive change you are talking about.
- hnov 5y ago
  I would not want an Arab spring, give me a dictatorship over an endless low level conflict between warring factions any day.
- wara23arish 5y ago
  Almost all of the arab spring countries except for Tunisia maybe are worse off, they are significantly worse off too. Literal slave market in Libya for example. People dont seem to understand that foreign interventions are complicated seem to almost always go wrong. Its not as simple as oh Saddam is a dictator, get rid of him, all done we good. What pisses me off the most is that these gov agents face no consequences for any failed interventions. They dont really care if people die as a result, cities are leveled refugees etc.. they’ll move on to get a promotion in the white house somewhere else and work on other stuff. I find it disgusting and dehumanizing. Apologies for the rant.

jim-jim-jim 5y ago

> Unless you take to the streets. They can't arrest you all. This is really out of touch coming from childless Western men with email jobs. Revolutionary ideas guys.

TheAlchemist 5y ago
As an Eastern European, I disagree. This guy is right. It has been done before (Solidarnosc) and it can be done again.

DoItToMe81 5y ago

Russia is a dictatorship. The true constituents of Russia, the military, the oligarchs, all for now seem to unconditionally support Putin. Publicly demonstrating in a country known for violently ending public demonstrations is only going to get people needlessly killed. There are many other ways to dissent.

dragonwriter 5y ago
> Publicly demonstrating in a country known for violently ending public demonstrations is only going to get people needlessly killed. Public activism (well targeted) is how you turn those things, particularly the military rank-and-file. I mean, it's not like the same thing wasn't true of the Tsarist regime when the various forces opposed to it started demonstrating.

Tabular-Iceberg 5y ago

The question is whether "you all" actually feel strongly about getting rid of Putin, or even having relations with the west. When Jacob Zuma was jailed, people went on pro-corruption riots. Pro-corruption, not anti-corruption. It's possible the same thing will happen in Russia if Putin is toppled too. Protesters may not only have to deal with the police, they might also have to deal with an angry pro-Putin lynch mob.