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I guess I'm naively assuming that there is some sort of patient management software which keeps track of what needs to happen when for whom, to enable things li

by gpm 5y ago

I guess I'm naively assuming that there is some sort of patient management software which keeps track of what needs to happen when for whom, to enable things like shift changes without losing information. But I definitely don't have any idea how this part of the medical world actually functions.

sangnoir 5y ago
Such a system would be extremely disruptive to nursing staff- it may work well with robots though. Most hospitals track care on patients chart, which is computerized, but boils down to free-form text[1] that relies on humans interpreting,executing and updating the chart. 1. Patient care is very bespoke, with all manner of combinations for treatments, including contra-indicated medications. It's similar to why it's hard to automate air traffic control (lot's of human factors at play that require human decision making).
- adrianN 5y ago
  Coincidentally, misinterpretations or loss of these free form notes is a major source of problems in hospitals.
  - sangnoir 5y ago
    To err is human. Until we develop a language that is perfectly unambiguous,all we can do for now is minimize chances of miscommunication. To continue on the air traffic comparison, sometimes the pilots land on the taxiway[1] despite clear instructions 1. https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/air-canada-investigation-ntsb-1.4646179 https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/air-canada-investigation-nt...
    - gpm 5y ago
      To err is human, but the solution in that case is to replace human judgment with technology > Federal officials subsequently issued new rules for nighttime landings and control-tower staffing. Now, when an adjacent runway is shut down at night, air traffic controllers will no longer let pilots make so-called visual approaches to land. Instead, they must use instrument landing systems or satellite-based systems to line up for the correct runway. Not sure this supports that "unambiguous language" is the problem. To me it sounds like the problem is "humans being expected to perfectly perform routine tasks" - and the solution is to move as much of the task away from the humans as possible. I imagine there are parallels in the medical system (but am not expert).
bobthepanda 5y ago
The main complaint I've heard about EMR in the US is that it massively increased the bookkeeping overhead that staff had to deal with. Particularly since it tends to fall in the realm of "terrible enterprise software no one asked the users for opinions on." Some kind of punch clock system for every action would make that even more tedious, I imagine.

by gpm 5y ago

sangnoir 5y ago

Such a system would be extremely disruptive to nursing staff- it may work well with robots though. Most hospitals track care on patients chart, which is computerized, but boils down to free-form text[1] that relies on humans interpreting,executing and updating the chart. 1. Patient care is very bespoke, with all manner of combinations for treatments, including contra-indicated medications. It's similar to why it's hard to automate air traffic control (lot's of human factors at play that require human decision making).

adrianN 5y ago
Coincidentally, misinterpretations or loss of these free form notes is a major source of problems in hospitals.
- sangnoir 5y ago
  To err is human. Until we develop a language that is perfectly unambiguous,all we can do for now is minimize chances of miscommunication. To continue on the air traffic comparison, sometimes the pilots land on the taxiway[1] despite clear instructions 1. https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/air-canada-investigation-ntsb-1.4646179 https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/air-canada-investigation-nt...
  - gpm 5y ago
    To err is human, but the solution in that case is to replace human judgment with technology > Federal officials subsequently issued new rules for nighttime landings and control-tower staffing. Now, when an adjacent runway is shut down at night, air traffic controllers will no longer let pilots make so-called visual approaches to land. Instead, they must use instrument landing systems or satellite-based systems to line up for the correct runway. Not sure this supports that "unambiguous language" is the problem. To me it sounds like the problem is "humans being expected to perfectly perform routine tasks" - and the solution is to move as much of the task away from the humans as possible. I imagine there are parallels in the medical system (but am not expert).

bobthepanda 5y ago

The main complaint I've heard about EMR in the US is that it massively increased the bookkeeping overhead that staff had to deal with. Particularly since it tends to fall in the realm of "terrible enterprise software no one asked the users for opinions on." Some kind of punch clock system for every action would make that even more tedious, I imagine.