Heh, maybe, at least at default settings I find the more advanced systems tend to be overly conservative, so in slippery conditions they reduce power, slip, rep

Heh, maybe, at least at default settings I find the more advanced systems tend to be overly conservative, so in slippery conditions they reduce power, slip, repeat... till you are at a crawl. The subaru on the hand just shrugs, slips a bit, but does what it's asked. The M3P for instance isn't particularly good at donuts, even in track mode, at least with the settings I tried. I've definitely been in scary situations where not being able to slip would have meant getting stuck. In my m3p I've even gotten stuck trying to get into my driveway, even with "slip start" mode enabled. Had to get a running start just to get over the curb of my almost flat driveway that my subaru (either the forester or wrx) would have just slipped a bit and gotten up.