6 ms·

His videos were amazing for following FSD. Most sources on Youtube seem very biased in talking up current capability. Pretty shitty to fire him and disable FSD

His videos were amazing for following FSD. Most sources on Youtube seem very biased in talking up current capability. Pretty shitty to fire him and disable FSD on his car when he made it clear to higher ups he was operating the channel. I can't imagine he gets fired if he put up videos like some do with over the top headlines like FSD SAVED MY LIFE or other hype channels.

dawnerd 5y ago
He was the guy that let the car drive into the pole. That completely goes against what everyone agrees to when joining FSD, and probably what employees agree to. Fact that he even posted and and tried to capitalize on it really shows... https://electrek.co/2022/02/04/tesla-full-self-driving-beta-crash-video/ https://electrek.co/2022/02/04/tesla-full-self-driving-beta-...
- jjulius 5y ago
  You're not wrong, but as someone who is forced to share the road with FSD Teslas, I'm happy that he was willing to show what one is capable of doing without proper interference.
  - zionic 5y ago
    Well we all share the air with aircraft. How would you feel about a pilot “demonstrating” controlled flight into terrain on autopilot? I assure you my Lear’s autopilot would do it.
    - jjulius 5y ago
      With nary a civilian or other airplane within impact distance, like in the video? Sure, let's do it!
    - stjohnswarts 5y ago
      Most of us don't have Lears to test that hypothesis out.
    - AniseAbyss 5y ago
      Aviation is severely regulated. After decades of horrendous accidents... Self driving is new and it is painfully obvious the government hasn't figured out how to deal with it yet.
      - juanani 5y ago
    - HWR_14 5y ago
      When the risk of an airplane crashing into my car/my bike/me as a pedestrian is 1/1,000,000 as likely as a car collision, we can talk. Meanwhile, if you want to splat into the edge of a mountain, I really have no feelings about it. Or did you mean you would use your Lear's autopilot to try to do some extremely low level flying over a highway?
    - FabHK 5y ago
      I think the point you're trying to make (maybe) is: aviation autopilots will also lead to disaster if used improperly, but that doesn't imply that they're bad or deficient technology (but rather that they were used improperly). First, aviation autopilots are a mature, tested, reliable, certified technology and are deployed only under narrow, precisely delineated circumstances by trained professionals (not a beta product tested "in production" by amateurs). Next, though, you imply that the FSD was used somewhat irresponsibly or improperly here. I fail to see that. He used it as it was supposed to, and when he saw that it was swerving into the pylon, he reacted immediately (within the limits of human reaction time), which was insufficient. How was that improper use?
  - jfoster 5y ago
    That cars are capable of crashing was known before FSD was even a thing. Statistically, you should be much more afraid of the cars driven by human drivers, because they can do everything FSD can, and there's truly not many on the road using FSD.
    - mherdeg 5y ago
      The statistic I wonder about is -- self-driving cars will shrink the pool of available donor organs by about 20% ( https://futurism.com/neoscope/self-driving-cars-will-save-lives-on-roads-but-will-they-cause-donor-organ-shortages https://futurism.com/neoscope/self-driving-cars-will-save-li...). Is there an externality that should be priced in here? How?
      - klodolph 5y ago
        Think of it this way... those organs are still being used to save someone's life, they're just doing it by staying in the original body.
        HWR_14 5y ago
        In a strict utilitarian analysis, they are saving one person's life, but could probably save several peoples' lives and dramatically improve the quality of life of others.
        klodolph 5y ago
        Ah yes, the "let's kill people to get their organs" argument, which just seems so reasonable...
        HWR_14 5y ago
        It's certainly not reasonable. But neither is responding to a question about the side effects of fewer donations as a result of car crashes with a dismissal about how the people in the cars will be alive.
- alphabetting 5y ago
  Posting unbiased full length videos of FSD was much more informative than self-censoring for Tesla, or "capitalizing" as you call it. The fact they removed his access to FSD makes it likely the few with access to FSD will feel the need to self-censor issues in the future.
  - dawnerd 5y ago
    He broke the terms of the FSD program. That should, for the safety of everyone on the road, lead to revocation. I'm part of FSD, I don't self-censor. It's terrible right now. I'm more worried about youtubers letting the car make mistakes just for the views. And honestly it's not safe for people to be trying to talk while paying attention to a car that constantly does dumb things.
    - alphabetting 5y ago
      I just don't see how you could follow his channel and watch that video and come to conclusion he let that happen for youtube views.
    - metadat 5y ago
      I've seen plenty of FSD Tesla abuse IRL with my own eyes. Infinitely more dangerous than what this guy did. Is there a way to report these truly egregiously dangerous license terms offenders to Tesla via license plate along with my dashcam footage?
      - ggreer 5y ago
        A lot of people in this thread are mixing up the FSD option (that you buy for your car) with the invite-only FSD beta. Currently the non-beta FSD will drive itself on limited access roads (basically taking you from onramp to offramp, changing lanes, taking interchanges, etc), but it's basically cruise control on surface streets. The FSD beta will self-drive pretty much anywhere (even parking lots) but it has only rolled out to a few percent of Teslas. Both versions use cameras inside the car to monitor the driver's attention. If you blind the internal camera, the car will refuse to engage autopilot or FSD beta. If you're seeing "egregiously dangerous" behavior, you should call the police. The dash cam should be more than enough evidence to get the reckless driver charged.
- im3w1l 5y ago
  "Let it hit" is pretty deceptive wording. You can see in the video it was not an intentional decision on his part. He trusted the car in a low-risk situation, where the only repercusion was small cosmetic damage. Perfect to see what the car can and cannot do in a responsible way. To me it does not reflect the least bit poorly on him. I do find it weird that an employee ongoingly posts critical reviews though. I can understand why Tesla do not want that.
  - hackernewds 5y ago
    So much discussion here but no one has posted the referenced YouTube channel. Anyone have it? Not sure where to find it
    - alphabetting 5y ago
      https://www.youtube.com/c/AIAddict/videos https://www.youtube.com/c/AIAddict/videos
    - im3w1l 5y ago
      The video was embedded in the article he linked, but for maximum convinience the direct link is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbSDsbDQjSU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbSDsbDQjSU and the time of the collision is 3:30.
- camjohnson26 5y ago
  This was considered the first confirmed crash on FSD beta. Unfortunately his firing is going to encourage other beta testers to only show positive clips. We’ve already seen other testers try to hide near misses and failures. Here the testers suggest cutting out a clip where FSD beta lunges toward a bicyclist: https://mobile.twitter.com/omedyentral/status/1491146820097298433 https://mobile.twitter.com/omedyentral/status/14911468200972... That same tester (Galileo Russel) nearly had beta access revoked after posting an earlier video where the beta crowded a pedestrian. He issued a DMCA takedown to try to stop the spread of the clip. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28566376 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28566376 Whatever you think of the beta (I think it’s blatantly irresponsible), Tesla should not be pressuring the testers to only share the good clips. That will lead to overestimation of the system’s capabilities and deaths in the long run, like what we’ve already seen from autopilot.
  - mlindner 5y ago
    - Sebb767 5y ago
      Neither does posting clips of how great the system is. If they didn't want any publicity, they could simply put the system under NDA. The way it is right now, they want to have their cake and eat it too.
      - mlindner 5y ago
        It used to be under NDA and people attacked Tesla for doing it so Musk decided to release people from being under NDA. Not being under a legally enforceable NDA doesn't mean Tesla can't pick and choose to remove people from the program for literally any reason they like. IMO they should put everyone under NDAs. Damned if you do, damned if you don't here. People just want to attack things.
        AlexandrB 5y ago
        Yes. It's too much to ask for a billionaire to spend some more time/money testing his shit before he unleashes it on the world. Poor him.
- hackernewds 5y ago
  That video did not remotely seem like he intentionally crashed it like others are speculating. They even braked the car, which the TSLA didn't respect. Not to mention, it ran a rolling right turn on a red light. FSD is definitely not ready for mass market, although TSLA seems to be willing to make the bets necessary to make that happen, the only way it can.
  - oneoff786 5y ago
    I’m not convinced the car is capable of not respecting your brake?
    - foepys 5y ago
      ABS is doing exactly that, just for very short periods of time.
      - HWR_14 5y ago
        ABS respects your brake, it just does it by apply counterintutive high-speed anti-brake pumping. It'd be like saying power steering doesn't respect your steering.
        foepys 5y ago
        Power steering can override your input by just applying enough force.
- oh_sigh 5y ago
  What do you mean "let"? It looks like he took control within less than a second after it was clear the car was turning too much.
- itsoktocry 5y ago
  >He was the guy that let the car drive into the pole. He "let" it, did he? >That completely goes against what everyone agrees to when joining FSD, and probably what employees agree to. This makes no sense. >Fact that he even posted and and tried to capitalize on it really shows... Someone posting "reality" has an agenda, whereas all of the people posting nothing but (highly edited) successes of FSD have zero agenda.
Animats 5y ago
Disabling FSD in retaliation for a review is probably illegal, under the Consumer Review Fairness Act.[1][2][3] [1] https://www.congress.gov/114/bills/hr5111/BILLS-114hr5111enr.pdf https://www.congress.gov/114/bills/hr5111/BILLS-114hr5111enr... [2] https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/consumer-review-fairness-act-what-businesses-need-know https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/consumer-rev... [3] https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2019/06/ftc-announces-two-actions-enforcing-consumer-review-fairness-act https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2019/06/...
- theturtletalks 5y ago
  What's a law with no teeth? These sort of things never lead to charges and in the rare cases they do, it's a drop in the bucket for the company.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- superfrank 5y ago
  I have no horse in this race, but they only cut off access to the FSD Beta. He still has access to normal FSD. I'm not a lawyer, but since it's a closed, invite only program, my guess would be that makes things a little less black and white.
  - alphabettsy 5y ago
    What is normal FSD because afaik that’s just regular Autopilot.
    - jazzyjackson 5y ago
      Smart summon and auto-lane change according to: https://www.tesla.com/support/autopilot https://www.tesla.com/support/autopilot So yeah the money is 95% a kickstarter pre-order for features that may be delayed beyond the useful life of the car

dawnerd 5y ago

He was the guy that let the car drive into the pole. That completely goes against what everyone agrees to when joining FSD, and probably what employees agree to. Fact that he even posted and and tried to capitalize on it really shows... https://electrek.co/2022/02/04/tesla-full-self-driving-beta-crash-video/ https://electrek.co/2022/02/04/tesla-full-self-driving-beta-...

jjulius 5y ago
You're not wrong, but as someone who is forced to share the road with FSD Teslas, I'm happy that he was willing to show what one is capable of doing without proper interference.
- zionic 5y ago
  Well we all share the air with aircraft. How would you feel about a pilot “demonstrating” controlled flight into terrain on autopilot? I assure you my Lear’s autopilot would do it.
  - jjulius 5y ago
    With nary a civilian or other airplane within impact distance, like in the video? Sure, let's do it!
  - stjohnswarts 5y ago
    Most of us don't have Lears to test that hypothesis out.
  - AniseAbyss 5y ago
    Aviation is severely regulated. After decades of horrendous accidents... Self driving is new and it is painfully obvious the government hasn't figured out how to deal with it yet.
    - juanani 5y ago
  - HWR_14 5y ago
    When the risk of an airplane crashing into my car/my bike/me as a pedestrian is 1/1,000,000 as likely as a car collision, we can talk. Meanwhile, if you want to splat into the edge of a mountain, I really have no feelings about it. Or did you mean you would use your Lear's autopilot to try to do some extremely low level flying over a highway?
  - FabHK 5y ago
    I think the point you're trying to make (maybe) is: aviation autopilots will also lead to disaster if used improperly, but that doesn't imply that they're bad or deficient technology (but rather that they were used improperly). First, aviation autopilots are a mature, tested, reliable, certified technology and are deployed only under narrow, precisely delineated circumstances by trained professionals (not a beta product tested "in production" by amateurs). Next, though, you imply that the FSD was used somewhat irresponsibly or improperly here. I fail to see that. He used it as it was supposed to, and when he saw that it was swerving into the pylon, he reacted immediately (within the limits of human reaction time), which was insufficient. How was that improper use?
- jfoster 5y ago
  That cars are capable of crashing was known before FSD was even a thing. Statistically, you should be much more afraid of the cars driven by human drivers, because they can do everything FSD can, and there's truly not many on the road using FSD.
  - mherdeg 5y ago
    The statistic I wonder about is -- self-driving cars will shrink the pool of available donor organs by about 20% ( https://futurism.com/neoscope/self-driving-cars-will-save-lives-on-roads-but-will-they-cause-donor-organ-shortages https://futurism.com/neoscope/self-driving-cars-will-save-li...). Is there an externality that should be priced in here? How?
    - klodolph 5y ago
      Think of it this way... those organs are still being used to save someone's life, they're just doing it by staying in the original body.
      - HWR_14 5y ago
        In a strict utilitarian analysis, they are saving one person's life, but could probably save several peoples' lives and dramatically improve the quality of life of others.
        klodolph 5y ago
        Ah yes, the "let's kill people to get their organs" argument, which just seems so reasonable...
        HWR_14 5y ago
        It's certainly not reasonable. But neither is responding to a question about the side effects of fewer donations as a result of car crashes with a dismissal about how the people in the cars will be alive.
alphabetting 5y ago
Posting unbiased full length videos of FSD was much more informative than self-censoring for Tesla, or "capitalizing" as you call it. The fact they removed his access to FSD makes it likely the few with access to FSD will feel the need to self-censor issues in the future.
- dawnerd 5y ago
  He broke the terms of the FSD program. That should, for the safety of everyone on the road, lead to revocation. I'm part of FSD, I don't self-censor. It's terrible right now. I'm more worried about youtubers letting the car make mistakes just for the views. And honestly it's not safe for people to be trying to talk while paying attention to a car that constantly does dumb things.
  - alphabetting 5y ago
    I just don't see how you could follow his channel and watch that video and come to conclusion he let that happen for youtube views.
  - metadat 5y ago
    I've seen plenty of FSD Tesla abuse IRL with my own eyes. Infinitely more dangerous than what this guy did. Is there a way to report these truly egregiously dangerous license terms offenders to Tesla via license plate along with my dashcam footage?
    - ggreer 5y ago
      A lot of people in this thread are mixing up the FSD option (that you buy for your car) with the invite-only FSD beta. Currently the non-beta FSD will drive itself on limited access roads (basically taking you from onramp to offramp, changing lanes, taking interchanges, etc), but it's basically cruise control on surface streets. The FSD beta will self-drive pretty much anywhere (even parking lots) but it has only rolled out to a few percent of Teslas. Both versions use cameras inside the car to monitor the driver's attention. If you blind the internal camera, the car will refuse to engage autopilot or FSD beta. If you're seeing "egregiously dangerous" behavior, you should call the police. The dash cam should be more than enough evidence to get the reckless driver charged.
im3w1l 5y ago
"Let it hit" is pretty deceptive wording. You can see in the video it was not an intentional decision on his part. He trusted the car in a low-risk situation, where the only repercusion was small cosmetic damage. Perfect to see what the car can and cannot do in a responsible way. To me it does not reflect the least bit poorly on him. I do find it weird that an employee ongoingly posts critical reviews though. I can understand why Tesla do not want that.
- hackernewds 5y ago
  So much discussion here but no one has posted the referenced YouTube channel. Anyone have it? Not sure where to find it
  - alphabetting 5y ago
    https://www.youtube.com/c/AIAddict/videos https://www.youtube.com/c/AIAddict/videos
  - im3w1l 5y ago
    The video was embedded in the article he linked, but for maximum convinience the direct link is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbSDsbDQjSU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbSDsbDQjSU and the time of the collision is 3:30.
camjohnson26 5y ago
This was considered the first confirmed crash on FSD beta. Unfortunately his firing is going to encourage other beta testers to only show positive clips. We’ve already seen other testers try to hide near misses and failures. Here the testers suggest cutting out a clip where FSD beta lunges toward a bicyclist: https://mobile.twitter.com/omedyentral/status/1491146820097298433 https://mobile.twitter.com/omedyentral/status/14911468200972... That same tester (Galileo Russel) nearly had beta access revoked after posting an earlier video where the beta crowded a pedestrian. He issued a DMCA takedown to try to stop the spread of the clip. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28566376 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28566376 Whatever you think of the beta (I think it’s blatantly irresponsible), Tesla should not be pressuring the testers to only share the good clips. That will lead to overestimation of the system’s capabilities and deaths in the long run, like what we’ve already seen from autopilot.
- mlindner 5y ago
  - Sebb767 5y ago
    Neither does posting clips of how great the system is. If they didn't want any publicity, they could simply put the system under NDA. The way it is right now, they want to have their cake and eat it too.
    - mlindner 5y ago
      It used to be under NDA and people attacked Tesla for doing it so Musk decided to release people from being under NDA. Not being under a legally enforceable NDA doesn't mean Tesla can't pick and choose to remove people from the program for literally any reason they like. IMO they should put everyone under NDAs. Damned if you do, damned if you don't here. People just want to attack things.
      - AlexandrB 5y ago
        Yes. It's too much to ask for a billionaire to spend some more time/money testing his shit before he unleashes it on the world. Poor him.
hackernewds 5y ago
That video did not remotely seem like he intentionally crashed it like others are speculating. They even braked the car, which the TSLA didn't respect. Not to mention, it ran a rolling right turn on a red light. FSD is definitely not ready for mass market, although TSLA seems to be willing to make the bets necessary to make that happen, the only way it can.
- oneoff786 5y ago
  I’m not convinced the car is capable of not respecting your brake?
  - foepys 5y ago
    ABS is doing exactly that, just for very short periods of time.
    - HWR_14 5y ago
      ABS respects your brake, it just does it by apply counterintutive high-speed anti-brake pumping. It'd be like saying power steering doesn't respect your steering.
      - foepys 5y ago
        Power steering can override your input by just applying enough force.
oh_sigh 5y ago
What do you mean "let"? It looks like he took control within less than a second after it was clear the car was turning too much.
itsoktocry 5y ago
>He was the guy that let the car drive into the pole. He "let" it, did he? >That completely goes against what everyone agrees to when joining FSD, and probably what employees agree to. This makes no sense. >Fact that he even posted and and tried to capitalize on it really shows... Someone posting "reality" has an agenda, whereas all of the people posting nothing but (highly edited) successes of FSD have zero agenda.

Animats 5y ago

Disabling FSD in retaliation for a review is probably illegal, under the Consumer Review Fairness Act.[1][2][3] [1] https://www.congress.gov/114/bills/hr5111/BILLS-114hr5111enr.pdf https://www.congress.gov/114/bills/hr5111/BILLS-114hr5111enr... [2] https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/consumer-review-fairness-act-what-businesses-need-know https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/consumer-rev... [3] https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2019/06/ftc-announces-two-actions-enforcing-consumer-review-fairness-act https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2019/06/...

theturtletalks 5y ago
What's a law with no teeth? These sort of things never lead to charges and in the rare cases they do, it's a drop in the bucket for the company.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
superfrank 5y ago
I have no horse in this race, but they only cut off access to the FSD Beta. He still has access to normal FSD. I'm not a lawyer, but since it's a closed, invite only program, my guess would be that makes things a little less black and white.
- alphabettsy 5y ago
  What is normal FSD because afaik that’s just regular Autopilot.
  - jazzyjackson 5y ago
    Smart summon and auto-lane change according to: https://www.tesla.com/support/autopilot https://www.tesla.com/support/autopilot So yeah the money is 95% a kickstarter pre-order for features that may be delayed beyond the useful life of the car