4 ms·

I hear there was a time that we did some pretty messed up things in the US, and some people didn't seem to have a problem with it at the time. Doesn't sound so

I hear there was a time that we did some pretty messed up things in the US, and some people didn't seem to have a problem with it at the time. Doesn't sound so catchy right? Society changes, people adapt. If there was not a strong desire, it wouldn't have passed unanimously.

Wowfunhappy 5y ago
> If there was not a strong desire, it wouldn't have passed unanimously. I don't think this has been thought through properly. Time changes are difficult to reason about, and DST is associated with the part of year when the sun is up for longer anyway. Everyone thinks "yay sunlight" without realizing what that really entails (waking up earlier relative to our internal clocks, which are set by the sunrise). Hence why we should look at public sentiment at the time we actually implemented this. Almost all scientists who study sleep say we should be doing permanent standard time, not permanent DST.
- extheat 5y ago
  The New York Times article on the subject discusses some of the benefits: > In one 2017 study[1] from Denmark, scientists analyzed a psychiatric database of more than 185,000 people from 1995 to 2012. They found that the fall transition to standard time was associated with an 11 percent increase in depressive episodes, an effect that took 10 weeks to dissipate. The spring switch, by contrast, had no similar effect. > Retail and leisure industries have argued that more light in the evenings would give consumers more time to spend money, and proponents also argue that lighter evenings would translate to fewer robberies[2] and safer roads[3]. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/15/us/politics/daylight-saving-time-senate.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/15/us/politics/daylight-savi... 1 https://journals.lww.com/epidem/Fulltext/2017/05000/Daylight_Savings_Time_Transitions_and_the.7.aspx https://journals.lww.com/epidem/Fulltext/2017/05000/Daylight... 2 https://www.brookings.edu/blog/brookings-now/2015/10/29/fighting-crime-with-daylight-saving-time/#cancel https://www.brookings.edu/blog/brookings-now/2015/10/29/figh... 3 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12067111/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12067111/
  - Wowfunhappy 5y ago
    > In one 2017 study[1] from Denmark, scientists analyzed a psychiatric database of more than 185,000 people from 1995 to 2012. They found that the fall transition to standard time was associated with an 11 percent increase in depressive episodes, an effect that took 10 weeks to dissipate. The spring switch, by contrast, had no similar effect. Yeah, I've seen that before, and I've always found it incredibly unconvincing. The thing about the fall is that there's also less sunlight in general, at any time of day, and DST won't change that. I'd be very curious to see a study conducted before/after temporary all-year DST in the 70s, although it probably doesn't exist.
hackernewds 5y ago
I hear there were some huge mistakes the populace of Germany made. However, this time is different and the people of the US should accept no learnings from that situation. Is that right framing?
LocalH 5y ago
Straw man argument. It seems disingenuous to immediately bring up some of the most extreme and heinous behavior from our national history, in a discussion about time shifts. The actions of legislators are not, in a practical sense, directly representative of the citizenry. Sure, some things end up going to popular vote, but some things are just proposed and passed with zero citizen input.

Wowfunhappy 5y ago

> If there was not a strong desire, it wouldn't have passed unanimously. I don't think this has been thought through properly. Time changes are difficult to reason about, and DST is associated with the part of year when the sun is up for longer anyway. Everyone thinks "yay sunlight" without realizing what that really entails (waking up earlier relative to our internal clocks, which are set by the sunrise). Hence why we should look at public sentiment at the time we actually implemented this. Almost all scientists who study sleep say we should be doing permanent standard time, not permanent DST.

extheat 5y ago
The New York Times article on the subject discusses some of the benefits: > In one 2017 study[1] from Denmark, scientists analyzed a psychiatric database of more than 185,000 people from 1995 to 2012. They found that the fall transition to standard time was associated with an 11 percent increase in depressive episodes, an effect that took 10 weeks to dissipate. The spring switch, by contrast, had no similar effect. > Retail and leisure industries have argued that more light in the evenings would give consumers more time to spend money, and proponents also argue that lighter evenings would translate to fewer robberies[2] and safer roads[3]. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/15/us/politics/daylight-saving-time-senate.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/15/us/politics/daylight-savi... 1 https://journals.lww.com/epidem/Fulltext/2017/05000/Daylight_Savings_Time_Transitions_and_the.7.aspx https://journals.lww.com/epidem/Fulltext/2017/05000/Daylight... 2 https://www.brookings.edu/blog/brookings-now/2015/10/29/fighting-crime-with-daylight-saving-time/#cancel https://www.brookings.edu/blog/brookings-now/2015/10/29/figh... 3 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12067111/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12067111/
- Wowfunhappy 5y ago
  > In one 2017 study[1] from Denmark, scientists analyzed a psychiatric database of more than 185,000 people from 1995 to 2012. They found that the fall transition to standard time was associated with an 11 percent increase in depressive episodes, an effect that took 10 weeks to dissipate. The spring switch, by contrast, had no similar effect. Yeah, I've seen that before, and I've always found it incredibly unconvincing. The thing about the fall is that there's also less sunlight in general, at any time of day, and DST won't change that. I'd be very curious to see a study conducted before/after temporary all-year DST in the 70s, although it probably doesn't exist.

hackernewds 5y ago

I hear there were some huge mistakes the populace of Germany made. However, this time is different and the people of the US should accept no learnings from that situation. Is that right framing?

LocalH 5y ago

Straw man argument. It seems disingenuous to immediately bring up some of the most extreme and heinous behavior from our national history, in a discussion about time shifts. The actions of legislators are not, in a practical sense, directly representative of the citizenry. Sure, some things end up going to popular vote, but some things are just proposed and passed with zero citizen input.