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It's terrible, I love it. I also love that all the setup scripts are badly-written Perl scripts, and even some custom C code just to change the mixer rather tha

It's terrible, I love it. I also love that all the setup scripts are badly-written Perl scripts, and even some custom C code just to change the mixer rather than use alsactl. This is 1000% something I would have made years ago. edit Holy moly, the configs are CSV files.... that encode JSON?! And hey, Slack 15 is out! If they do a new release they won't need to release again for another 6 years!

ForOldHack 5y ago
"badly-written Perl scripts..." You are much too kind to the monkeys who put this together. The config is nice, but Chicago? Chicago font? I thought that was buried deep, long ago.
- moltke 5y ago
  Am I weird for liking Chicago?
  - mbg721 5y ago
    Do you enjoy casserole that calls itself pizza, and roast beef sub-sandwiches that demand dipping?
    - moltke 5y ago
      No. I've never really liked anything about Chicago the city (although I have some fond memories living in a nearby suburb for a few years as a child.) I don't like the food, I don't like the politics etc. I do like the font though. It's a bit like the Plan9 font, it just feels comfortable.
    - eyelidlessness 5y ago
      Why yes I enjoy both of those things. But the former is better classified as a lasagna. And the latter is just a good way to keep your sandwich intact with such a moist condiment.
    - zaps 5y ago
      I like when they put weird shit on hot dogs
      - mbg721 5y ago
        Sport peppers ftw!!
      - eyelidlessness 5y ago
        I’ve only ever had a “Chicago dog” in Minnesota, and the pepper relish was neon colored and over-seasoned with who knows what. But I’ve been told this is not a faithful representation, so I’ll try a real one next time I visit actual Chicago.
      - amatecha 5y ago
        If you ever visit Vancouver (or apparently LA or Santa Monica) you have to try out Japadog! Seriously, check these out. Can never go wrong with the Terimayo (or even better, Spicy Cheese Terimayo)... http://www.japadog.com/menu_En.html http://www.japadog.com/menu_En.html haha :D
  - eyelidlessness 5y ago
    Sincerely, no, it is a good low PPI font with a lot of (ugh actually unintended pun) character for its historical use.
  - Tabular-Iceberg 5y ago
    I like Chicago too, but only the original 12 pt. bitmap version. For some reason it never looks quite right when scaled, I wonder why.
    - fredoralive 5y ago
      Probably because Chicago was originally created by Susan Kare in just the 12pt bitmap form for the original Macintosh. The scalable TrueType version was created years later for System 7 by different people, and I'm afraid they really didn't capture the spirit very well.
  - astrange 5y ago
    Chicago is a great font. It’s also strangely popular in Japan, used in video games and I’ve seen several stores’ signs set in it: https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-exterior-shop-front-of-copo-sock-store-osaka-typical-open-store-with-84644320.html https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-exterior-shop-front-of-cop... Not so great kerning though.
  - BoxOfRain 5y ago
    I like Chicago too, but fonts are a contentious topic! I really like Computer Modern too but apparently some people properly hate it.
tyingq 5y ago
"badly-written Perl scripts" They do appear to be badly written on purpose, like this "hotdog-aboutDrives.pl" one: https://github.com/arthurchoung/HOTDOG/blob/master/hotdog-aboutDrives.pl https://github.com/arthurchoung/HOTDOG/blob/master/hotdog-ab... The entire script is this: #!/usr/bin/perl $str = `df`; print $str;
- throwaway984393 5y ago
  The rationale: https://hotdoglinux.com/PerlAndUseStrict/index.html https://hotdoglinux.com/PerlAndUseStrict/index.html " Most tutorials about Perl will tell you to always 'use strict' or something to that effect. However, the general rule for HOT DOG Linux is to not 'use strict'. The reasoning behind this is that each Perl script should be as simple as possible. It should be simple enough to not need 'use strict'. If it gets to the point where the script would be easier to deal with if it did 'use strict', then that is an indicator that the script is too complicated and should be broken up." I tried to come up with a comparison for this but failed. It's sort of like saying, "If you need to wear a helmet to do some activity, you should probably ......... break up the activity into three shorter activities ........."
  - simonh 5y ago
    If a brick could fall on you and kill you, just use smaller bricks.
    - free-malloc 5y ago
      If a crib needs a gate it should be lower down.
  - kazinator 5y ago
    Since the smaller scripts run in separate processes, there is in fact a safety benefit to the break-up, which compensates in some way for the lack of strict. Processes are isolated; you know that a function call in one script will not misuse a function in another. Or that a global variable defined in one script can't be modified or accessed in the other. The scripts can only communicate via external mechanisms: command line arguments, environment variables, files/pipes/sockets, more rarely shared memory. Unix was built using an extremely unsafe language. Yet it reached a decent level of reliability in just a few years, a lot of which was owed to the system applications being small programs isolated into separate processes.
layer8 5y ago
> CSV files.... that encode JSON?! We need a new schema language with the ability to specify such cross-format …formats.
- hnlmorg 5y ago
  I use jsonlines on those occasions https://jsonlines.org/examples/ https://jsonlines.org/examples/
  - alcover 5y ago
    This is nice. But less space-efficient than CSV when its strictly tabular, since CSV has columns legend on first row allowing 'pure' rows, whereas JSON will have to key every field, on every row.
    - severak_cz 5y ago
      you can have json lines where each line is json array
    - hnlmorg 5y ago
      Your use case is literally the first item in the link I shared (and the reason I shared that link too): ["Name", "Session", "Score", "Completed"] ["Gilbert", "2013", 24, true] ["Alexa", "2013", 29, true] ["May", "2012B", 14, false] ["Deloise", "2012A", 19, true]
    - karteum 5y ago
      I don't understand why people keep using CSV today while SQLite is MIT-licenced and can be used everywhere, has a very portable and lightweight implementation, has a stable file format with long-term commitment, and a good compromise on the type system that gives enough flexibility to be on par with CSV if some entries happen to have a different type...
      - genericacct 5y ago
        Installed base. You can bet there are thousands of AS/400s and similar architectures putting out CSVs. Also you cant get more lightweight than CSV, i have several microcontroller projects that output CSV.

ForOldHack 5y ago

"badly-written Perl scripts..." You are much too kind to the monkeys who put this together. The config is nice, but Chicago? Chicago font? I thought that was buried deep, long ago.

moltke 5y ago
Am I weird for liking Chicago?
- mbg721 5y ago
  Do you enjoy casserole that calls itself pizza, and roast beef sub-sandwiches that demand dipping?
  - moltke 5y ago
    No. I've never really liked anything about Chicago the city (although I have some fond memories living in a nearby suburb for a few years as a child.) I don't like the food, I don't like the politics etc. I do like the font though. It's a bit like the Plan9 font, it just feels comfortable.
  - eyelidlessness 5y ago
    Why yes I enjoy both of those things. But the former is better classified as a lasagna. And the latter is just a good way to keep your sandwich intact with such a moist condiment.
  - zaps 5y ago
    I like when they put weird shit on hot dogs
    - mbg721 5y ago
      Sport peppers ftw!!
    - eyelidlessness 5y ago
      I’ve only ever had a “Chicago dog” in Minnesota, and the pepper relish was neon colored and over-seasoned with who knows what. But I’ve been told this is not a faithful representation, so I’ll try a real one next time I visit actual Chicago.
    - amatecha 5y ago
      If you ever visit Vancouver (or apparently LA or Santa Monica) you have to try out Japadog! Seriously, check these out. Can never go wrong with the Terimayo (or even better, Spicy Cheese Terimayo)... http://www.japadog.com/menu_En.html http://www.japadog.com/menu_En.html haha :D
- eyelidlessness 5y ago
  Sincerely, no, it is a good low PPI font with a lot of (ugh actually unintended pun) character for its historical use.
- Tabular-Iceberg 5y ago
  I like Chicago too, but only the original 12 pt. bitmap version. For some reason it never looks quite right when scaled, I wonder why.
  - fredoralive 5y ago
    Probably because Chicago was originally created by Susan Kare in just the 12pt bitmap form for the original Macintosh. The scalable TrueType version was created years later for System 7 by different people, and I'm afraid they really didn't capture the spirit very well.
- astrange 5y ago
  Chicago is a great font. It’s also strangely popular in Japan, used in video games and I’ve seen several stores’ signs set in it: https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-exterior-shop-front-of-copo-sock-store-osaka-typical-open-store-with-84644320.html https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-exterior-shop-front-of-cop... Not so great kerning though.
- BoxOfRain 5y ago
  I like Chicago too, but fonts are a contentious topic! I really like Computer Modern too but apparently some people properly hate it.

tyingq 5y ago

"badly-written Perl scripts" They do appear to be badly written on purpose, like this "hotdog-aboutDrives.pl" one: https://github.com/arthurchoung/HOTDOG/blob/master/hotdog-aboutDrives.pl https://github.com/arthurchoung/HOTDOG/blob/master/hotdog-ab... The entire script is this: #!/usr/bin/perl $str = `df`; print $str;

throwaway984393 5y ago
The rationale: https://hotdoglinux.com/PerlAndUseStrict/index.html https://hotdoglinux.com/PerlAndUseStrict/index.html " Most tutorials about Perl will tell you to always 'use strict' or something to that effect. However, the general rule for HOT DOG Linux is to not 'use strict'. The reasoning behind this is that each Perl script should be as simple as possible. It should be simple enough to not need 'use strict'. If it gets to the point where the script would be easier to deal with if it did 'use strict', then that is an indicator that the script is too complicated and should be broken up." I tried to come up with a comparison for this but failed. It's sort of like saying, "If you need to wear a helmet to do some activity, you should probably ......... break up the activity into three shorter activities ........."
- simonh 5y ago
  If a brick could fall on you and kill you, just use smaller bricks.
  - free-malloc 5y ago
    If a crib needs a gate it should be lower down.
- kazinator 5y ago
  Since the smaller scripts run in separate processes, there is in fact a safety benefit to the break-up, which compensates in some way for the lack of strict. Processes are isolated; you know that a function call in one script will not misuse a function in another. Or that a global variable defined in one script can't be modified or accessed in the other. The scripts can only communicate via external mechanisms: command line arguments, environment variables, files/pipes/sockets, more rarely shared memory. Unix was built using an extremely unsafe language. Yet it reached a decent level of reliability in just a few years, a lot of which was owed to the system applications being small programs isolated into separate processes.

layer8 5y ago

> CSV files.... that encode JSON?! We need a new schema language with the ability to specify such cross-format …formats.

hnlmorg 5y ago
I use jsonlines on those occasions https://jsonlines.org/examples/ https://jsonlines.org/examples/
- alcover 5y ago
  This is nice. But less space-efficient than CSV when its strictly tabular, since CSV has columns legend on first row allowing 'pure' rows, whereas JSON will have to key every field, on every row.
  - severak_cz 5y ago
    you can have json lines where each line is json array
  - hnlmorg 5y ago
    Your use case is literally the first item in the link I shared (and the reason I shared that link too): ["Name", "Session", "Score", "Completed"] ["Gilbert", "2013", 24, true] ["Alexa", "2013", 29, true] ["May", "2012B", 14, false] ["Deloise", "2012A", 19, true]
  - karteum 5y ago
    I don't understand why people keep using CSV today while SQLite is MIT-licenced and can be used everywhere, has a very portable and lightweight implementation, has a stable file format with long-term commitment, and a good compromise on the type system that gives enough flexibility to be on par with CSV if some entries happen to have a different type...
    - genericacct 5y ago
      Installed base. You can bet there are thousands of AS/400s and similar architectures putting out CSVs. Also you cant get more lightweight than CSV, i have several microcontroller projects that output CSV.