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Does permanent DST mean : A. The sun rises earlier and sets earlier. B. The sun rises later, but sun sets later too.
by screye 5y ago
Does permanent DST mean :
A. The sun rises earlier and sets earlier.
B. The sun rises later, but sun sets later too.
- ghaff 5y agoB (relative to standard time)
- Sohcahtoa82 5y agoB. We just entered DST, moving our clocks forward, so we get more daylight at the end of the day.
- betwixthewires 5y agoNo, the sun rises and sets when it rises and sets. All this means is that at noon the clock says 1:00pm. It's still noon. People are so disconnected from the world that their abstractions of it become more real to them than actual reality. I don't think it is a good thing. Why not just make daylight savings time go away and do things "an hour earlier"? You'd literally be waking up at the same exact time, just that the clock will say 6 instead of 7 or whatever. Are we really so far gone as a society that we will go to such great lengths to fool our brains? It's madness.
- screye 5y agoforgive my meme like reaction but, Bruh....
- cush 5y agoYou know what they mean…
- Wowfunhappy 5y ago> People are so disconnected from the world that their abstractions of it become more real to them than actual reality. Because my job starts at 9 am regardless of the position of the sun.
- reificator 5y agoChanging your working hours means a talk with your boss and maybe HR. If we didn’t have DST maybe it would be a box you check when you get hired. We spend so much on engineering systems that handle DST changes, there’s an increase in sleep deprived auto accidents, people die from heart attacks… All to avoid individuals asking for different hours at work? Sorry, “changing” time twice a year is not a reasonable substitute for scheduling work appropriately depending on the season.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- watwut 5y agoThat is not true for wast majority of jobs where boss sets time ... and pretty often have reason for it. And schools won't adjust schedule just for you personally. Nor clubs nor churches and even friends when they do party they set time.
- reificator 5y agoThey already change schedules though, we just launder it through the time “change” despite clear evidence of costs in both productivity and literal human life.
- Wowfunhappy 5y ago> They already change schedules though Yes, because the rest of society also changes their schedules, in sync. Most people don't have the ability to unilaterally change when they work irrespective of everyone else. If they did, switching between DST and standard time wouldn't matter either—just tell your boss you'll be coming into work an hour "later" in the summer.
- grogenaut 5y agoClubs and churches will be based on when people can most likely make it. I think those things will sort themselves out. They already accomodate for things like weather, light, etc.
- johnfn 5y ago> People are so disconnected from the world that their abstractions of it become more real to them than actual reality. I don't think it is a good thing. Goodness. The guy is asking a simple question. People shouldn't have to frame up everything from axiomatic principles before asking for some extremely basic information.
- betwixthewires 5y agoYeah I misunderstood the question as a statement before responding. still, what I said is pertinent to the conversation so I left it as is. That said, I do think decisions should be made based on axiomatic principles.
- germandiago 5y agoOTOH, I find informative to know these little things and understand how things work below the surface :)
- replygirl 5y agobefore anyone asks me what time is they better check their priors
- necovek 5y agoYour argument is an argument against any time zones at all. It could equally apply to abolishing timezones and switching to UTC time everywhere (or maybe fractional Julian Day/JD numbers). > People are so disconnected from the world that their abstractions of it become more real to them than actual reality. I don't think it is a good thing. But then you do the same thing. :D There is never a jump of 1h: the "daylight" time changes gradually, so if you want to move 1h one way in 182 days, you only need to note how today, as you woke up at the same time as yesterday, it's now 7 - 1h/182... And it will be 7-2h/182 the day after, and... That's very confusing. This is not an argument for DST, but an argument against any "artificial" adjustment (both DST and the one you propose where you wake up at the "same time" but it's suddenly 1h of a difference in wall clock time?). Basically, it's easy enough for a region to decide on the most suitable timezone (eg. with or without DST of today, or even something entirely different), and keep that on for the entire year. If you end up waking up at night for work and that bothers you, make sure to affect that regional decision when it's being made. If, like me, you care more about having daylight hours after work is done, then vote the other way. Ideally, find work that will have flexible start times (this is generally hardest for institutions dealing with plenty of people like schools and government administration).
- betwixthewires 5y agoYou're misunderstanding my argument. "Noon" is when the sun is midway through its daylight cycle. We call that "12:00(pm)" for the sake of measurement. Switching to UTC worldwide is just as bad as switching to DST, except at meridian. Time does not change naturally; noon is noon is noon is noon. I'm not proposing what you think I'm proposing. I'm saying the only sane solution to this is permanent standard time, which is what I think you want too, and that permanent daylight time is not more sane than switching twice a year.
- badwolf 5y agoThere are still demarcations where we arbitrarily decide to switch over an hour. Seasons change, people live at different latitudes. Noon is not always "noon"
- 5y ago
- dylan604 5y agoFuture historians will write tomes about the efforts early man went through of adjusting the time (as if they had the power) twice a year. Time is an abstract thing we have let rule us. I love the stories of indigenious tribes where they worked on a task until it was completed, not because some arbitrary shadow on a stick. When it was light, you worked. When it's dark, you don't work. Of course, we have electricity now so we've screwed ourselves with an easy time of day schedule.
- lmm 5y agoYou might enjoy https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/11/03/the-witching-hour/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/11/03/the-witching-hour/
- dylan604 5y agoWow, a website that gives HN a run for its money on "how small can we make a font?" type of styling. Although your linked site actually has style. <ducks> Edit: otherwise, yes, this is kind of the style I was thinking. However, I was hoping less of a "religious" difference and more of an enlightened "idiots did that?" kind of thing.
- prometheus76 5y agoIt's also much easier to coordinate activities with others with clocks, especially if those other people live in other time zones. "Meet me at sunrise" is a wide window.
- dylan604 5y agoExcept when part of the world undergoes a change in the clocks weeks before other parts of the world does, so now the world has to deal with the same change twice. So this makes it 4 times a year the world has to deal with the confusion, not just twice. Hell, I'm only familiar with US/UK, so maybe it's even more???
- electrondood 5y ago> People are so disconnected from the world that their abstractions of it become more real to them than actual reality. My friend, this is how all of human language works. "Ceci n'est pas une pipe."
- chimeracoder 5y agoDST is "summer time", so the sun rises later but sets later too.
- michaelt 5y agoBefore permanent DST, on 31 December in San Francisco, sunlight ran from 07:24-17:00 With permanent DST, it will instead be 08:24-18:00
- daveslash 5y agoAs others have said, B. is the answer to question. But to add to that, the U.S. has 4 timezones[1]: Eastern Time, Central Time, Mountain Time, and Pacific Time. Each zone has a "Standard" time and "Daylight" time - that is, for the winter half of the year, California is in the Pacific Standard Time (PST), whereas in the summer (B., in your question), California is in the Pacific Daylight Time (PDT). It's a very petty pet peeve of mine when people confuse they two - when they say "Let's meet at 3pm, PST" to mean 3pm Pacific Time, but it's in the summer ~ so 3pm PST would really be 2PM PDT. I know, I know, it's petty... and normally I don't say anything and roll with it... but on the inside I weep. [1] Note: 4 Timezones isn't exactly correct. There is Hawaii and Alaska of course, and the U.S. Island Territories too. And then there's Arizona, which is permanently on Mountain Standard Time (MST), so when the rest of the Mountain Zone jump ahead an hour to be in MDT, Arizona is still MST, which is the same "time" as PDT ~ is that a different timezone? Oh... and only most or Arizona avoids MDT - most (but not all) of the Native American Reservations in Arizona do observe MDT. WHY HAVE WE DONE THIS TO OURSELVES?!? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- screye 5y agoThanks. That is helpful. I am glad they made this change. The sun (or what we have of it) setting at 3pm in Seattle led to a lot of seasonal depression for me. I never wake up before 7.30am anyway, so the waking up in darkness doesn't affect me.
- nemo44x 5y ago
- daveslash 5y agoHappy to help. Also, when I hear people advocate for "always be on Standard time" vs "always be on Daylight Savings time"... well, I don't think it's a simple matter of which is better or preferable per the individual's preference; when we hear these sorts of positions from people, we should also take into account their location within a times zone. The sun rises/sets about an hour earlier on the eastern border of a U.S. Timezone than on the western border. If you're in Seattle, then you and I are in the same Time Zone, but your sun rises about 20 minutes behind mine (and I'm even on the Pacific Coast! Not even inland!). There was an article on here the other day indicating that living on the Western end of a Time Zone is detrimental to one's health. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30690135 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30690135