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Silencing the Kinesis Advantage 2
- rak 5y agoAnother ergo keyboard I am on the lookout for is the Glove80. Been happy with the moonlander but I am really interested in something completely wireless and not as expensive as the AM Hatsu.
- volfied 5y agoAfter a week of adjustment and constant tweaking of the layout (Wally is so nice), I have to say my Moonlander fixed most of my shoulder, forearm and wrist issues. When people asked about the price, I told them some days I spend more time on my keyboard than on my bed. I just wish I could put a trackpoint right between YUHJ buttons and never use my mouse again.
- l0ner 5y agoMaybe not quite as comfortable, but you could - as an axample - configure one of the left thumb keys as a layer switch, and then define the corresponding layer such that the right hands home row acts to move the mouse pointer.
- andrewcl 5y agoI can't wait until the new Kinesis Advantage 360 is out. I'm hoping it's much quieter than this iteration. https://kinesis-ergo.com/keyboards/advantage360/ https://kinesis-ergo.com/keyboards/advantage360/
- cholantesh 5y agoI thought it was supposed to be out in December? Either way I have owned an Advantage and an Advantage 2 and they're the best non-gaming keyboards I've worked with, by a significant margin, so yeah I'm excited to get the 360.
- andrewcl 5y agoPre order was out in December, sounds like they are aiming to have the first keyboard drop in the summer. At least it was implied in their blog: https://kinesis-ergo.com/zmk-and-kinesis/ https://kinesis-ergo.com/zmk-and-kinesis/
- criddell 5y agoFrom that article: > Users of the Advantage keyboards tend to fall into two rough buckets: 1) people who suffer from pain when typing on a conventional keyboard, and 2) software developers. I assume the second bucket is software developers who do not have RSI problems. What are the advantages of this keyboard for software developers? Is "software developers" just another way of saying users who want to customize how the keyboard works?
- goosedragons 5y agoI think so. Plus the thumb clusters which makes accessing modifiers like ctrl as well as home/end and page up/down easier than a standard keyboard. I personally never used home/end and page up/down before I got my Advantage 2 but I find I use them more since they are easy to access without going off home row. I also use the "numpad" more and I've taken a lot of common programming symbols like {},[],| off my pinky and onto the numpad layer. Although that's more a pain thing.
- secabeen 5y agoI've tried the thumb clusters, and I just mis-hit space too often with them. I'm sure I could get used to them, but I really do prefer a wide space bar with a large target area.
- fermentation 5y agoI can hardware remap the capslock key to ESC, which is pretty much a requirement for vim. Doing this in software is moderately annoying in every OS
- ubermonkey 5y agoOh wow. I'm tempted. I've used an original Advantage for most of the last 10-15 years; it's a TANK of a keyboard and I love it. I bought a KeyChron -- conventional style, but smaller -- to use with an iPad last year, but it's ended up being my go-to at my desk due partly to the great key feel and smaller footprint, but also because it turns out backlighting is a really nice thing to have. A backlit Advantage sounds awesome.
- melling 5y ago“After years of typing on thin Apple keyboards, my fingers started to hurt. First a little, then badly. ” Patient: “Doctor, doctor, it hurts when I do this” Doctor: “Then don’t do that” I’ve been reading RSI stories for almost 30 years. http://xahlee.info/emacs/emacs/emacs_hand_pain_celebrity.html http://xahlee.info/emacs/emacs/emacs_hand_pain_celebrity.htm... Yes, coders will never type 180 wpm with most other solutions but isn’t it about time we found other ways to let people enter information with computers. This solution from 7 years ago is memorable: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8805053 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8805053
- toyg 5y agoThat's going to eventually kill her neck. Maybe we should realize the human body is just not built for extremely repetitive actions, and work our way from there.
- melling 5y agoNo idea but that was 7 years ago. Hopefully, she devised another clever solution. Here’s one of the first stories I remember reading by the creator of TCL/Tk from the late 90’s https://web.stanford.edu/~ouster/cgi-bin/wrist.php https://web.stanford.edu/~ouster/cgi-bin/wrist.php
- honkycat 5y agoThis weekend I was working in the garden, having an epic battle with the bamboo infestation, and messed up my hands badly.[0] The pain and soreness in my hands made me notice something: My thumb hurts when I use it to hit the command key! And my pinky hurts when I hit ctrl! This, along with a generous bonus from my work, inspired me to cut the problem off at the pass and invest in a Moonlander keyboard. I love weird controls and input methods, so it doubles as a quirky hobby purchase for me as well. That being said: I am absolutely ready for the day we have viable alternatives to finger typing. I would also love a way to interact with my phone better. I've looked at the "twiddler" one-handed chorded keyboard, but it seems like a gimmick. I remember a few years ago there was a promising project that read your keystrokes through your wrists. Hopefully something like that will pan out in the near future. 0: Basically... i was using pruning sheers to cut through the bamboo by squeezing the shears really hard. I KNOW I AM AN IDIOT. I already ordered a hand saw for my next battle.
- ajford 5y agoMy "why didn't I think of this earlier" tip for the Moonlander is to associate the .bin files you download from configurator with the Wally app, so you can just download and launch flashing from your browser. Also, pair that with sticking a "Reset" button on an out of the way layer so you can reset your KB without needing a paper clip or similar poking tool. Could be something you can't do if you already use .bin files elsewhere in your system (embedded programming work perhaps), but if you can swing it, it was really convenient the first month or two I had my Moonlander. I often made two to three changes to my layout per day the first couple of weeks, then 2-3 changes per week the next month or two. A year in now and my last tweak was 6 months ago.
- ubermonkey 5y agoI literally keep another keyboard around to switch to on conference calls because of how loud my Kinesis is.
- ajolly 5y agoTry krisp or Nvidia broadcast or one of the other AI noise canceling tools. This way you don't have to give up your kinesis
- ubermonkey 5y agoI'm okay using a different keyboard sometimes. It's probably a good idea for all of us.
- mynameisvlad 5y agoI would've used something other than clips/o-rings to dampen the sound of the switches, since that generally muddies the feel of them. I recently switched from MX Blue to Zilent 65g (https://zealpc.net/products/zilent?variant=5894817710118 https://zealpc.net/products/zilent?variant=5894817710118) on my Moonlander in preparation for bringing it to the office. It sounds like any membrane keyboard while retaining the tactile feel of a MX Blue/Brown.
- ajford 5y agoHowdy fellow Moonlander user! Drive-by suggestion for Boba u4's. It's very much a personal feel, but in my head to head comparison of Zilents and Boba u4's on a Moonlander, I found the Boba to be more to my liking. IMO, there was a stronger tactile bump on the u4 and they seemed a bit quieter to me.
- mynameisvlad 5y agoI actually had to get used to the Zilents from MX Blues because I found I would miss a key occasionally (especially pinky), so a stronger bump would probably be a downgrade for me. The Bobas seem to also be sold out, and I got my Zilents in a few days from 1up. Mainly got them because, and I quote my coworker, "When we were in offices and you were across from me, I sometimes closed my door because I could hear them" (only half-joking). Still wanted a tactile switch, and I tested it next to a standard ergo keyboard a bunch of coworkers have and it was about the same noise level, so I think it'll be fine for that purpose. I did end up ordering a second Moonlander for the home office with Kailh Bronze, though. If I end up not liking them, I still have a full set of Blues. :)
- ajford 5y agoAh, I might have misspoke. I don't mean it took stronger force to press the key, but the resulting feel of the "click" was stronger. Like a stronger thump from the click sound. But either way, glad you're enjoying your Zilents! I love the variety of choices now available, as you can find the perfect key for you.
- uses 5y agoThe weirdest thing about the Advantage is the hollow echo sound it makes. I'm using a $300+ keyboard but it sounds so cheap due to the hollow sound. It seems so obvious after first typing on it. Besides that, it's an excellent keyboard and I'll never, ever buy a regular keyboard again. Everything else about the design makes sense, and it's completely programmable.
- Hnrobert42 5y agoI used a piece of mass loaded vinyl to cut out that echoey twang. I also used some rubber o rings to dampen the key sound. Between the two, the keyboard is a lot better.
- reasonabl_human 5y agoCouldn’t stand the small rubber nub function keys, and the as you mentioned the echo was off-putting. Also zero customizability in the split nature since it’s one massive plastic hunk…. Excited for the advantage 360 this summer as they finally are addressing this by going split and ditching the function keys
- codemac 5y agoThe rubber nub function keys were replaced with plastic keys in the most recent version, much more pleasant to use. I'm sad about their departure on the 360. It's a huge keyboard, I want more keys!
- dmm 5y agoI replaced the controller[0] in mine and moved the f-keys to a separate QMK layer so I didn't have to use the tiny rubber keys anymore. [0] https://github.com/kinx-project/kint https://github.com/kinx-project/kint
- almog 5y agoPerhaps I'm just used to mechanical switches noise (I'm typing this on a Kinesis Advantage v1 and have used the older contoured model before that), but would like to ask - once you silenced the casing noise, what was it about the switches-noise that you didn't like?
- halfdan 5y agoI personally love the clicky sound of the Advantage 2. I switched to it some time last year after having RSI related symptoms. Since the keyboard required me to retrain muscle memory I also ended up switching to Dvorak (wrote about it at https://geekmonkey.org/learning-to-type-dvorak/ https://geekmonkey.org/learning-to-type-dvorak/). It took a significant amount of time to get back up to speed, but some time last month it finally "clicked" and I couldn't be happier. Definitely wish the keyboard was a bit more portable for travel, but for short stints I can stomach typing on a regular laptop keyboard. As for the Kinesis 360: I recently saw it in use on a twitch stream (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1422298932 https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1422298932) and it looked fantastic. Looks like the general public will have to wait until later this year to actually buy it though.
- ahupp 5y agoIt might be a recent change, but th Advantage 2 is available with "MX Quiet red" keys that are dramatically quieter than the default. I recently switched to this one after complaints from my officemate.
- irateswami 5y agoI have 2 KA2's, one for my personal and work rigs, respectively. I've honestly never had a problem with their noise level, they sound pretty much the same as any other modern and commonly available mechanical keyboard. For shits-n-gigs I bought a Dactyl Ergodox from Oh My Keycaps, I'm still waiting on it to be delivered but I'm really stoked. I would never go back to a typical keyboard.
- cinntaile 5y agoOff topic but this post will attract Kinesis users... Does anyone know how to deal with ghosting on the Kinesis Advantage?I bought a used one but quite often it repeats the letters that I press and that's not how it's supposed to work. I haven't used it in years but it would be interesting to fix it. I know it's possible to change the controller, but how do I know if that is the issue?
- LichenStone 5y agoDo you mean 'chattering'? Double presses can happen with electrical contact mechanism switches, particularly if they are old or dirty.
- cinntaile 5y agoIf I press 'f' it can come out as 'ffffff'. They're not dirty, but they're probably 10-15 years old. I assume this is much harder to fix than changing the keyboard controller.
- secure 5y agoYou can try increasing the debounce time to paper over this issue. Requires using a replacement controller like https://github.com/kinx-project/kint/ https://github.com/kinx-project/kint/ of course :)
- dwringer 5y agoIf you have an original Advantage, IIRC that was one of the known issues that got fixed in the Advantage2 (or perhaps one of the Advantage2 firmware updates). I'm having trouble finding a source now, but Kinesis' site does state: > "The firmware of the original Advantage was developed prior to the advent of modern operating systems and USB 3.0. As a result, it is not uncommon for original Advantage keyboards to become unreliable when used on newer PCs and operating systems as they were not designed with these protocols in mind." [0] [0] https://kinesis-ergo.com/support/advantage/ https://kinesis-ergo.com/support/advantage/
- DiabloD3 5y agoSo why would you buy a Kinesis today when the Dactyl Manuform exists?
- saralily 5y agoBecause when I have a problem with a Kinesis, I email them and an engineer responds in 24 hours.