4 ms·

Those people can get up later? It really doesn't matter whether we're on daylight time or standard time, schedules will adjust to whatever makes sense for that

Those people can get up later? It really doesn't matter whether we're on daylight time or standard time, schedules will adjust to whatever makes sense for that particular locale. Just stop changing the damn clocks back and forth.

xyhopguy 5y ago
this proposal will set sunrise at 9am during december in Oregon and washington. 'Wake up later' doesnt really work for most people.
- stickfigure 5y ago
  How is 8am so much better? If you start work at 8am, you need to be up 1-2 hours earlier to get ready, commute, etc. The only people who wake up with the sun in the winter are folks that roll into work at 10am.
  - xyhopguy 5y ago
    Currently we deal with >= 8am sunrise for 2 months of the year. With this proposal, you get it for November and February too. yay!
davis_m 5y ago
The time most people wake up is dictated by when they need to be at work. They can't simply "get up later".
- tshaddox 5y ago
  But isn’t it the case that the jobs that are directly concerned with whether the sun is up would also just do the job based on solar time with no regard for standard time? There’s obviously some need for accommodating those people so they can get their kids to school or have some time to go to the bank or whatever, but I find it hard to believe that applying standard time offsets twice a year is the most efficient way to make these accommodations.
- danShumway 5y ago
  Could work hours shift for those people? What I can't get past is that we are literally changing the numbers on our clocks. That can't be a less invasive or easier to coordinate solution than a schedule shift for a business would be. If we can pass a law mandating daylight savings time, is that less invasive than passing a law saying that some businesses should shift their hours in the winter? Even without a law -- businesses can voluntarily have summer hours and winter hours, because they already do, we just change the clocks to pretend that's not what we're doing. Businesses can already ignore or set their own hours voluntarily regardless of DST, and the majority have completely voluntarily decided that in the winter they'll shift their opening and closing times by an hour. I just feel like -- couldn't they do literally the exact same thing they're doing right now, except without us all having to pretend that time itself has changed? Is it a mental thing, are we just relying on CEOs not understanding how DST works, so we have to trick them into having seasonal hours?
  - ghaff 5y ago
    It's a mass coordination problem. Businesses have customers. OK, segments of the business that don't interact with customers could choose to switch working hours. But if I'm retail say, my customers probably expect that I'll be open at 10am for a random store.
    - danShumway 5y ago
      Even if we take the perspective that we need complete coordination across the board, it still seems weird to me that our solution to that isn't to regulate that business hours should shift in the winter, it's to regulate that time itself bend to our whims. It seems like a solution where retail businesses were required to shift hours in the winter would still be preferable to what we have. Because what we have is kind of that already, except also it makes a lot of date math harder and affects non-retail workers too. If the problem is that we need businesses to shift hours, we can do that through either regulation or social behavior or through other incentives -- we don't have to on top of that also change clocks, do we? Even just shifting public school hours and public transportation schedules alone would probably be a large incentive for many businesses to follow along.
- yakak 5y ago
  Shifts, etc, are all basically negotiated business by business, school system by school system, etc. The night shift, restaurant workers, school kids, etc, are really pushed around by logistics to match rush hours for office workers. A split between organizations changing their winter and summer hours and ones choosing an hour earlier or later permanently is not necessarily harmful because it ends up spreading the traffic across more time. Everyone moving in sync causes a very precise traffic jam.
nerdponx 5y ago
Most people can't get up at 8 and get to work by 9.
joncp 5y ago
Uh huh. "Hey boss, sickfigure over on HN says I can get up later so I'll be coming in at 10. k thx"
- greyhair 5y ago
  Lol! Oh yeah.
greyhair 5y ago
Says the person that has never punched a clock on a blue collar job. 7:00 AM to 4:00 PM.
lacrosse_tannin 5y ago
You could get up earlier??

xyhopguy 5y ago

this proposal will set sunrise at 9am during december in Oregon and washington. 'Wake up later' doesnt really work for most people.

stickfigure 5y ago
How is 8am so much better? If you start work at 8am, you need to be up 1-2 hours earlier to get ready, commute, etc. The only people who wake up with the sun in the winter are folks that roll into work at 10am.
- xyhopguy 5y ago
  Currently we deal with >= 8am sunrise for 2 months of the year. With this proposal, you get it for November and February too. yay!

davis_m 5y ago

The time most people wake up is dictated by when they need to be at work. They can't simply "get up later".

tshaddox 5y ago
But isn’t it the case that the jobs that are directly concerned with whether the sun is up would also just do the job based on solar time with no regard for standard time? There’s obviously some need for accommodating those people so they can get their kids to school or have some time to go to the bank or whatever, but I find it hard to believe that applying standard time offsets twice a year is the most efficient way to make these accommodations.
danShumway 5y ago
Could work hours shift for those people? What I can't get past is that we are literally changing the numbers on our clocks. That can't be a less invasive or easier to coordinate solution than a schedule shift for a business would be. If we can pass a law mandating daylight savings time, is that less invasive than passing a law saying that some businesses should shift their hours in the winter? Even without a law -- businesses can voluntarily have summer hours and winter hours, because they already do, we just change the clocks to pretend that's not what we're doing. Businesses can already ignore or set their own hours voluntarily regardless of DST, and the majority have completely voluntarily decided that in the winter they'll shift their opening and closing times by an hour. I just feel like -- couldn't they do literally the exact same thing they're doing right now, except without us all having to pretend that time itself has changed? Is it a mental thing, are we just relying on CEOs not understanding how DST works, so we have to trick them into having seasonal hours?
- ghaff 5y ago
  It's a mass coordination problem. Businesses have customers. OK, segments of the business that don't interact with customers could choose to switch working hours. But if I'm retail say, my customers probably expect that I'll be open at 10am for a random store.
  - danShumway 5y ago
    Even if we take the perspective that we need complete coordination across the board, it still seems weird to me that our solution to that isn't to regulate that business hours should shift in the winter, it's to regulate that time itself bend to our whims. It seems like a solution where retail businesses were required to shift hours in the winter would still be preferable to what we have. Because what we have is kind of that already, except also it makes a lot of date math harder and affects non-retail workers too. If the problem is that we need businesses to shift hours, we can do that through either regulation or social behavior or through other incentives -- we don't have to on top of that also change clocks, do we? Even just shifting public school hours and public transportation schedules alone would probably be a large incentive for many businesses to follow along.
yakak 5y ago
Shifts, etc, are all basically negotiated business by business, school system by school system, etc. The night shift, restaurant workers, school kids, etc, are really pushed around by logistics to match rush hours for office workers. A split between organizations changing their winter and summer hours and ones choosing an hour earlier or later permanently is not necessarily harmful because it ends up spreading the traffic across more time. Everyone moving in sync causes a very precise traffic jam.

nerdponx 5y ago

Most people can't get up at 8 and get to work by 9.

joncp 5y ago

Uh huh. "Hey boss, sickfigure over on HN says I can get up later so I'll be coming in at 10. k thx"

greyhair 5y ago
Lol! Oh yeah.

greyhair 5y ago

Says the person that has never punched a clock on a blue collar job. 7:00 AM to 4:00 PM.

lacrosse_tannin 5y ago

You could get up earlier??