3 ms·

I would hope that China would understand Buddhism enough to know that there is no possible separate authority... I mean, the Heart sutra almost definitely came

I would hope that China would understand Buddhism enough to know that there is no possible separate authority... I mean, the Heart sutra almost definitely came from China.. Although, I admit that I do have a hard time knitting together Tibetan and Burmese etc forms of Buddhism with what my understanding is (zen). They seem to genuinely worship Gautama Buddha as if he was some kinda god or something. That's not what we're into at all. He was just a normal dude, in zen... And I mean... Dogen too. Both kinda interesting and insightful ones, ones we probably can learn something from (also learn some negative things from, e.g, O.G buddha walked out on his family (what a cunt!)) but yeah, there's no space laser eyes or anything in my book. Just some dudes that looked at a wall for some years, and realised they're essentially the same as the local lemon tree. Kinda makes sense to me. Takes a while though. Even though I'm a buddhist, I seem to really offend non-zen buddhists in this fashion, which I find kinda hilarious.

technobabbler 5y ago
> I would hope that China would understand Buddhism enough to know that there is no possible separate authority... I mean, the Heart sutra almost definitely came from China.. Speaking as an agnostic, outside observer looking in on the various forms of Buddhism: Buddhism has mutated a lot in its history, and every country it touches has been changed by it and in turn changes it. I don't think any two countries practice the same form of Buddhism. Some sects of it are strongly mystical and others are more rational, and deification is an important part of some practices (and practitioners) and not others. In the US, I've been to supposedly Zen practices that had an emphasis on "acknowledging/honoring" the bodhisattvas prior to meditation; to me, as an agnostic, it felt very similar to worship. "Buddhism with Chinese characteristics" (to steal a phrase) mixes their particular cultural norms with the Indian version, adds on Confucianism and Taoism to some degree, and then seeks to put it all under CCP control. Much like the Romans absorbed Christianity and added their own flavor, China does the same with its assimilees... again, for cultural and political hegemony. They are trying to weave the young puppet Dalai Lama into their own narrative, slowly and subtly. You are a Buddhist in the same sense that Protestants and Catholics are both Christian, but that never stopped them from disagreeing :) Weird, the arbitrary lines in the sand we like to draw, no?
- cyberpunk 5y ago
  > In the US, I've been to supposedly Zen practices that had an emphasis on "acknowledging/honoring" the bodhisattvas prior to meditation; to me, as an agnostic, it felt very similar to worship. Oh yeah, this goes on. It's very common during zazenkai or sesshin to honour the ancestors and so some full on chants and even prostrations; I felt the same way as you did for at the beginning -- it really fucked with my atheist elitism, but really those problems were mine not theirs :} Wear the silly hat, do a few bows, it helps more than it hurts. And, sorry, there is no god outside of yourself :}
clevergadget 5y ago
since you cant see me nod at you i am typing it nods in agreement i am pretty sure all these people had some terrible opinions and bad habits no doubt
amanaplanacanal 5y ago
The way I look at it: it's all skilful means. What you believe isn't the point, the practices are to help you reach enlightenment. In that sense, it probably doesn't matter if you practice zen, Tibetan, or Thai forest variety. But I'm pretty heretical by nature.

technobabbler 5y ago

> I would hope that China would understand Buddhism enough to know that there is no possible separate authority... I mean, the Heart sutra almost definitely came from China.. Speaking as an agnostic, outside observer looking in on the various forms of Buddhism: Buddhism has mutated a lot in its history, and every country it touches has been changed by it and in turn changes it. I don't think any two countries practice the same form of Buddhism. Some sects of it are strongly mystical and others are more rational, and deification is an important part of some practices (and practitioners) and not others. In the US, I've been to supposedly Zen practices that had an emphasis on "acknowledging/honoring" the bodhisattvas prior to meditation; to me, as an agnostic, it felt very similar to worship. "Buddhism with Chinese characteristics" (to steal a phrase) mixes their particular cultural norms with the Indian version, adds on Confucianism and Taoism to some degree, and then seeks to put it all under CCP control. Much like the Romans absorbed Christianity and added their own flavor, China does the same with its assimilees... again, for cultural and political hegemony. They are trying to weave the young puppet Dalai Lama into their own narrative, slowly and subtly. You are a Buddhist in the same sense that Protestants and Catholics are both Christian, but that never stopped them from disagreeing :) Weird, the arbitrary lines in the sand we like to draw, no?

cyberpunk 5y ago
> In the US, I've been to supposedly Zen practices that had an emphasis on "acknowledging/honoring" the bodhisattvas prior to meditation; to me, as an agnostic, it felt very similar to worship. Oh yeah, this goes on. It's very common during zazenkai or sesshin to honour the ancestors and so some full on chants and even prostrations; I felt the same way as you did for at the beginning -- it really fucked with my atheist elitism, but really those problems were mine not theirs :} Wear the silly hat, do a few bows, it helps more than it hurts. And, sorry, there is no god outside of yourself :}

clevergadget 5y ago

since you cant see me nod at you i am typing it nods in agreement i am pretty sure all these people had some terrible opinions and bad habits no doubt

amanaplanacanal 5y ago

The way I look at it: it's all skilful means. What you believe isn't the point, the practices are to help you reach enlightenment. In that sense, it probably doesn't matter if you practice zen, Tibetan, or Thai forest variety. But I'm pretty heretical by nature.