3 ms·

I think, while this might have been the perception up until a few weeks ago, the invasion of Ukraine has shown the world what a true "bully" on the internationa

by hguant 5y ago

I think, while this might have been the perception up until a few weeks ago, the invasion of Ukraine has shown the world what a true "bully" on the international stage looks like. There will always be cloistered individuals who think that anyone who isn't "pure" (for an increasingly variable definition of pure) is evil. That opinion is absolutely fine to have until reality strikes. The bubble of people who post on HN have been living in that cloister for the last decade or so, not realizing what goes on in the world. At the end of the day, the US has made it a policy to defend and promote democracy across the world, and has actively done so, through it's support of international institutions and protection of democratic norms.

mywacaday 5y ago
I would add that the US does the above without being willing to be accountable to the 123 other ICC member states along with China, Iraq, Israel, Libya, Qatar and Yemen while demanding the rest of the the world to obey it's sanctions. Do as I say and not as I do is hardly a shining example of democracy. If the planet is is ever to be a globally equitable and safe place for all accountability for all is needed.
the_af 5y ago
> The bubble of people who post on HN have been living in that cloister for the last decade or so, not realizing what goes on in the world. Maybe some, but some of us in Latin America live in countries that at times have been subjected to US "influence" which resulted in subverting governments, abductions and torture. All in the name of freedom and fighting communism, which I guess makes it alright!
- hguant 5y ago
  Unironically yes
GrothendieckA 5y ago
Well, then I pass the word to American diplomat (and architect of the Cold war) George Kennan, who wrote an article in NYT in 1997(!), claiming NATO (i.e. US) expansion to Russian borders to be fateful error: https://www.nytimes.com/1997/02/05/opinion/a-fateful-error.html https://www.nytimes.com/1997/02/05/opinion/a-fateful-error.h... Can't you see that Ukraine war is the direct consequence of this decision? To reinforce the statement: all public polls in 90s showed Russians to be very enthusiastic about cooperating with West, they truly believed that the Western model is just and brings prosperity. But it is US' political arrogance and notorious "exceptionality" distracted not only authorities, but people from believing US. People lost trust in US even before propaganda started to arise. Think about it, my American friend. Of course, living in such a safe island as USA, far from potential enemies and with insanely huge military budget you might think it is not your problem. And obviously you do. But keep in mind that every consequence has a cause. In 90s US had a unique chance to make this world a better and safer place, but instead US planted seeds of nowadays' wars. Have you heard of Wolfowitz Doctrine (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfowitz_Doctrine https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfowitz_Doctrine)? Even written in diplomatic language, it is horrific. Current US foreign policy is no better. So please don't BS us that US "defends and promotes democracy across the world", because it simply doesn't. You accuse people on HN of "living in cloister", but it is you who transmits US slogans without slightest hint of critical thinking. Dixi
- hguant 5y ago
  New account Poor grammar Blames Ukrainian self determination for the war. This is a shill propaganda account
baxuz 5y ago
The US has killed a whole lot more people and committed a whole lot more war crimes and crimes against humanity than the USSR did in the past 70 years. Possibly more than any other country in the world.
- madengr 5y ago
  Why 70, so you can ignore the millions killed by Stalin and communism?
  - baxuz 5y ago
    No. 70 as I'm looking at post-WW2. The US were still the good guys in WW2. Same reason why I'm not mentioning Nazi Germany. Although one can say that the US stopped being the good guys when they nuked Japan.
  - hguant 5y ago
    Just ignoring all the murders in Hungary and Poland as well. They're a shill, it's fine.
- hguant 5y ago
  ...what kind of revisionist nonsense are you trying to make up? Like this is objectively false and comes across as tankie propaganda that belongs on Reddit.

by hguant 5y ago

mywacaday 5y ago

I would add that the US does the above without being willing to be accountable to the 123 other ICC member states along with China, Iraq, Israel, Libya, Qatar and Yemen while demanding the rest of the the world to obey it's sanctions. Do as I say and not as I do is hardly a shining example of democracy. If the planet is is ever to be a globally equitable and safe place for all accountability for all is needed.

the_af 5y ago

> The bubble of people who post on HN have been living in that cloister for the last decade or so, not realizing what goes on in the world. Maybe some, but some of us in Latin America live in countries that at times have been subjected to US "influence" which resulted in subverting governments, abductions and torture. All in the name of freedom and fighting communism, which I guess makes it alright!

hguant 5y ago
Unironically yes

GrothendieckA 5y ago

Well, then I pass the word to American diplomat (and architect of the Cold war) George Kennan, who wrote an article in NYT in 1997(!), claiming NATO (i.e. US) expansion to Russian borders to be fateful error: https://www.nytimes.com/1997/02/05/opinion/a-fateful-error.html https://www.nytimes.com/1997/02/05/opinion/a-fateful-error.h... Can't you see that Ukraine war is the direct consequence of this decision? To reinforce the statement: all public polls in 90s showed Russians to be very enthusiastic about cooperating with West, they truly believed that the Western model is just and brings prosperity. But it is US' political arrogance and notorious "exceptionality" distracted not only authorities, but people from believing US. People lost trust in US even before propaganda started to arise. Think about it, my American friend. Of course, living in such a safe island as USA, far from potential enemies and with insanely huge military budget you might think it is not your problem. And obviously you do. But keep in mind that every consequence has a cause. In 90s US had a unique chance to make this world a better and safer place, but instead US planted seeds of nowadays' wars. Have you heard of Wolfowitz Doctrine (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfowitz_Doctrine https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfowitz_Doctrine)? Even written in diplomatic language, it is horrific. Current US foreign policy is no better. So please don't BS us that US "defends and promotes democracy across the world", because it simply doesn't. You accuse people on HN of "living in cloister", but it is you who transmits US slogans without slightest hint of critical thinking. Dixi

hguant 5y ago
New account Poor grammar Blames Ukrainian self determination for the war. This is a shill propaganda account

baxuz 5y ago

The US has killed a whole lot more people and committed a whole lot more war crimes and crimes against humanity than the USSR did in the past 70 years. Possibly more than any other country in the world.

madengr 5y ago
Why 70, so you can ignore the millions killed by Stalin and communism?
- baxuz 5y ago
  No. 70 as I'm looking at post-WW2. The US were still the good guys in WW2. Same reason why I'm not mentioning Nazi Germany. Although one can say that the US stopped being the good guys when they nuked Japan.
- hguant 5y ago
  Just ignoring all the murders in Hungary and Poland as well. They're a shill, it's fine.
hguant 5y ago
...what kind of revisionist nonsense are you trying to make up? Like this is objectively false and comes across as tankie propaganda that belongs on Reddit.