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(Congrats. paxys, you got me to reply twice to you :)) >and there isn't a "correct" answer there For me, personally, I like the concept that noon is when the

(Congrats. paxys, you got me to reply twice to you :)) >and there isn't a "correct" answer there For me, personally, I like the concept that noon is when the sun is at it highest point or closest, I can adjust everything else around that.

paxys 5y ago
Considering how wide time zones are that is pretty much impossible to standardize on regardless of which clock you pick. Then it becomes a question of which cities you are going to prioritize, and I doubt any politician wants to start that conversation. Plus, "solar noon" itself shifts by ~20 mins throughout the year due to the Earth's orbit.
- ginko 5y ago
  >Considering how wide time zones are that is pretty much impossible to standardize on regardless of which clock you pick With standard time you will still have the rough center of the time zone match with solar time with about +/- 30 minutes give or take on the sides. With DST it may well happen that no part of the timezone actually matches solar time since everything is essentially shifted 1 hour to the East.
mindcrime 5y ago
An awful lot of us can't "just adjust around that" though. A significant portion of the population work jobs with relatively fixed hours, working something like 8-5, 9-6, etc. So if you don't get off work until, say, 6, and then have an hour commute home, DST is really nice to allow for some sunlight for outdoor activities after work. Sure, it's easy to say "just leave work an hour earlier" and some people have that flexibility. But far from most, I'd wager.
- hinkley 5y ago
  I would like to see this change in conjunction to moving to a 32-35 hour work week. As a developer it is still often socially difficult to take time during the day to do errands or go to appointments, and so I am constantly reminded of the times when I simply could not take the time off. I'd love to live in a world where bankers and dentists and optometrists all kept different hours, so the bankers could get glasses, and the dentists take out loans, without having to drop everything to do it. With smart phones this is somewhat more tenable. I don't need to memorize when the dentist is open, so there is less immediate value in reducing the world to a small set of common numbers.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  > then have an hour commute home That’s where the problem is.
acegopher 5y ago
> For me, personally, I like the concept that noon is when the sun is at it highest point or closest, I can adjust everything else around that Then you must not like time zones, as that is true only in one particular sliver of a time zone. You want true local time, like before the railroads time.
- moralestapia 5y ago
  Actually, time zones are the best approach we have now to "noon is when the sun is up".
adolph 5y ago
"Or closest" is a mildly significant caveat. The real Sun and the imaginary “mean Sun,” from which mean solar time is measured, may be as much as 16 minutes apart because during the course of the year the apparent motion of the real Sun against the background of the stars (the ecliptic) alternately slows down and speeds up. https://www.britannica.com/science/solar-time https://www.britannica.com/science/solar-time The east–west component [of the analemma] results from the nonuniform rate of change of the Sun's right ascension, governed by combined effects of Earth's axial tilt and orbital eccentricity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analemma https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analemma
collegeburner 5y ago
I actually like this as a compromise. Otherwise it's just a matter of how many people prefer leisure at what time.

paxys 5y ago

Considering how wide time zones are that is pretty much impossible to standardize on regardless of which clock you pick. Then it becomes a question of which cities you are going to prioritize, and I doubt any politician wants to start that conversation. Plus, "solar noon" itself shifts by ~20 mins throughout the year due to the Earth's orbit.

ginko 5y ago
>Considering how wide time zones are that is pretty much impossible to standardize on regardless of which clock you pick With standard time you will still have the rough center of the time zone match with solar time with about +/- 30 minutes give or take on the sides. With DST it may well happen that no part of the timezone actually matches solar time since everything is essentially shifted 1 hour to the East.

mindcrime 5y ago

An awful lot of us can't "just adjust around that" though. A significant portion of the population work jobs with relatively fixed hours, working something like 8-5, 9-6, etc. So if you don't get off work until, say, 6, and then have an hour commute home, DST is really nice to allow for some sunlight for outdoor activities after work. Sure, it's easy to say "just leave work an hour earlier" and some people have that flexibility. But far from most, I'd wager.

hinkley 5y ago
I would like to see this change in conjunction to moving to a 32-35 hour work week. As a developer it is still often socially difficult to take time during the day to do errands or go to appointments, and so I am constantly reminded of the times when I simply could not take the time off. I'd love to live in a world where bankers and dentists and optometrists all kept different hours, so the bankers could get glasses, and the dentists take out loans, without having to drop everything to do it. With smart phones this is somewhat more tenable. I don't need to memorize when the dentist is open, so there is less immediate value in reducing the world to a small set of common numbers.
chrisseaton 5y ago
> then have an hour commute home That’s where the problem is.

acegopher 5y ago

> For me, personally, I like the concept that noon is when the sun is at it highest point or closest, I can adjust everything else around that Then you must not like time zones, as that is true only in one particular sliver of a time zone. You want true local time, like before the railroads time.

moralestapia 5y ago
Actually, time zones are the best approach we have now to "noon is when the sun is up".

adolph 5y ago

"Or closest" is a mildly significant caveat. The real Sun and the imaginary “mean Sun,” from which mean solar time is measured, may be as much as 16 minutes apart because during the course of the year the apparent motion of the real Sun against the background of the stars (the ecliptic) alternately slows down and speeds up. https://www.britannica.com/science/solar-time https://www.britannica.com/science/solar-time The east–west component [of the analemma] results from the nonuniform rate of change of the Sun's right ascension, governed by combined effects of Earth's axial tilt and orbital eccentricity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analemma https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analemma

collegeburner 5y ago

I actually like this as a compromise. Otherwise it's just a matter of how many people prefer leisure at what time.