5 ms·

No it shouldn't. The benefit of forcing the discipline of getting up early on children is greater than any health impact or inconvenience.

munk-a 5y ago
That'd be the same benefit that forces sugar and caffeine dependencies on adults so they can maintain unnatural working schedules and has contributed heavily to the obesity epidemic, right?
- collegeburner 5y ago
  Rising with the sun is much more natural than getting up when it's dark. Most people need time before work, so we need the sun to rise a few hours before work. I learned some discipline and started getting up early without sugar and caffeine, if the young people today would rather complain than do the same that's not my problem.
JadeNB 5y ago
> No it shouldn't. The benefit of forcing the discipline of getting up early on children is greater than any health impact or inconvenience. Since tone can often travel poorly across the wire—that is sarcasm, right?
- collegeburner 5y ago
  No. I don't see what I wrote that comes across as sarcastic.
  - JadeNB 5y ago
    It didn't come across as sarcastic, but I hoped it was. As it stands, though I can imagine arguments for or against the current school set-up, the idea: > The benefit of forcing the discipline of getting up early on children is greater than any health impact or inconvenience. that a particular arbitrary method of instilling a particular arbitrary form of discipline is more important than any health impact or any inconvenience is horrifying to me, and I hope it doesn't find many adherents.
FredPret 5y ago
Just send them to kid bootcamp and have them do pushups if “forcing discipline” is so important
- collegeburner 5y ago
  Also helpful, things like scouts often involve that and help boys become men. Edit: reply is dead so I can't respond, but 'beeboop, do you really have a problem with scouts? It's helped form a lot of good young men in America.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - FredPret 5y ago
    Boy Scouts: sure. Getting up early: maybe for some people. But forcing society to get up at a time that suits almost nobody purely because it is hard: no.
mbesto 5y ago
Sure, this is true if you don't believe sleep has anything to do with health... You might want to read more about the impact for lack of sleep on people's health.
- collegeburner 5y ago
  They're fine if they go to bed early. That's the actual discipline part, going to bed early and getting up early is harder than going to bed late and getting up late. But overindulgent parents let kids stay up so they never learned good habits and now they're entering the workforce and whining about it.
  - mbesto 5y ago
    > They're fine if they go to bed early. They're not. This ignores diverging chronotypes. I suggest you read up on the science around sleep before commenting on whether "they're fine". https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/chronotypes-evolution-explains-night-owls-and-early-birds https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/chronotypes-ev... https://www.sleepfoundation.org/how-sleep-works/chronotypes https://www.sleepfoundation.org/how-sleep-works/chronotypes https://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Sleep-Unlocking-Dreams/dp/1501144316/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1647376027&sr=8-1 https://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Sleep-Unlocking-Dreams/dp/1501...
    - collegeburner 5y ago
      Obviously we can't control this, so I see no evidence that "chronotypes" are formed by nature and not by nurture. Lots of other stuff we do is influenced by our social structure and we could probably fix most teenagers and young adults by changing that.
      - munk-a 5y ago
        As stated above, I'm a night owl myself and tend to have a pretty off kilter sleeping schedule. A bunch of things have contributed to that - I've got ADD and have been on stimulants for most of my life, I worked as a game dev for a few years which involved months of overtime where we'd often work 12hrs three times a week that played absolute hell with my sleeping schedule and still plagues me to this day - lastly, I'm light sensitive, I can't comfortably see and operate in full daylight. I can't say for certain where my night-owlish self comes from, but it predates taking stimulants and working at a game dev company - so maybe it's a side effect of light sensitivity or maybe it's a neurological thing... or maybe it's just a natural clock thing.

munk-a 5y ago

That'd be the same benefit that forces sugar and caffeine dependencies on adults so they can maintain unnatural working schedules and has contributed heavily to the obesity epidemic, right?

collegeburner 5y ago
Rising with the sun is much more natural than getting up when it's dark. Most people need time before work, so we need the sun to rise a few hours before work. I learned some discipline and started getting up early without sugar and caffeine, if the young people today would rather complain than do the same that's not my problem.

JadeNB 5y ago

> No it shouldn't. The benefit of forcing the discipline of getting up early on children is greater than any health impact or inconvenience. Since tone can often travel poorly across the wire—that is sarcasm, right?

collegeburner 5y ago
No. I don't see what I wrote that comes across as sarcastic.
- JadeNB 5y ago
  It didn't come across as sarcastic, but I hoped it was. As it stands, though I can imagine arguments for or against the current school set-up, the idea: > The benefit of forcing the discipline of getting up early on children is greater than any health impact or inconvenience. that a particular arbitrary method of instilling a particular arbitrary form of discipline is more important than any health impact or any inconvenience is horrifying to me, and I hope it doesn't find many adherents.

FredPret 5y ago

Just send them to kid bootcamp and have them do pushups if “forcing discipline” is so important

collegeburner 5y ago
Also helpful, things like scouts often involve that and help boys become men. Edit: reply is dead so I can't respond, but 'beeboop, do you really have a problem with scouts? It's helped form a lot of good young men in America.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- FredPret 5y ago
  Boy Scouts: sure. Getting up early: maybe for some people. But forcing society to get up at a time that suits almost nobody purely because it is hard: no.

mbesto 5y ago

Sure, this is true if you don't believe sleep has anything to do with health... You might want to read more about the impact for lack of sleep on people's health.

collegeburner 5y ago
They're fine if they go to bed early. That's the actual discipline part, going to bed early and getting up early is harder than going to bed late and getting up late. But overindulgent parents let kids stay up so they never learned good habits and now they're entering the workforce and whining about it.
- mbesto 5y ago
  > They're fine if they go to bed early. They're not. This ignores diverging chronotypes. I suggest you read up on the science around sleep before commenting on whether "they're fine". https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/chronotypes-evolution-explains-night-owls-and-early-birds https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/chronotypes-ev... https://www.sleepfoundation.org/how-sleep-works/chronotypes https://www.sleepfoundation.org/how-sleep-works/chronotypes https://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Sleep-Unlocking-Dreams/dp/1501144316/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1647376027&sr=8-1 https://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Sleep-Unlocking-Dreams/dp/1501...
  - collegeburner 5y ago
    Obviously we can't control this, so I see no evidence that "chronotypes" are formed by nature and not by nurture. Lots of other stuff we do is influenced by our social structure and we could probably fix most teenagers and young adults by changing that.
    - munk-a 5y ago
      As stated above, I'm a night owl myself and tend to have a pretty off kilter sleeping schedule. A bunch of things have contributed to that - I've got ADD and have been on stimulants for most of my life, I worked as a game dev for a few years which involved months of overtime where we'd often work 12hrs three times a week that played absolute hell with my sleeping schedule and still plagues me to this day - lastly, I'm light sensitive, I can't comfortably see and operate in full daylight. I can't say for certain where my night-owlish self comes from, but it predates taking stimulants and working at a game dev company - so maybe it's a side effect of light sensitivity or maybe it's a neurological thing... or maybe it's just a natural clock thing.