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lol no thanks. Congrats to all the engineers that have worked on this and getting this out the door, but I don't think anyone should use or recommend these Goog

lol no thanks. Congrats to all the engineers that have worked on this and getting this out the door, but I don't think anyone should use or recommend these Google services, especially when they have been SO inconsistent about the life, longevity and future of their products. I'm curious to be proven otherwise (and open to criticism of my claims), especially when other services have existed for a while that provide the same functionality, or offer better tie in with alternative products (hosting, pages, workers, lambdas, compute etc).

vinceguidry 5y ago
Now that it's out of beta I should probably move my domain to somewhere more trustworthy.
- Tostino 5y ago
  Could be sunset any day now. It's "legacy".
- s0rce 5y ago
  Thats exactly what I did. Didn't feel like paying $6/mo for gmail. Moved to zoho.
  - vinceguidry 5y ago
    I'm on fastmail, happy to pay for reliable service.
  - a5aAqU 5y ago
    Another option is Gandi.net, which offers free email with domains.
mmastrac 5y ago
I got burned by the apps domain fiasco this year and it was the final nail in the coffin for me. I'm minimizing my reliance on Google now.
- robbiep 5y ago
  What was the apps domain fiasco? I have a .app domain. How worried should I be
  - greycol 5y ago
    Not the .app domain but the google apps service(now called google workspace (I think... they change the name at the drop of a hat)). They basically removed a free tier that they explicitly guaranteed would be free "forever". Because of this people set up friends and family as users using the service. Google then told people no you have to pay ridiculous amounts per month for them to keep any apps they have already bought tied to your account and there's no way to seperate your account once it's tied in. They did this with a 2 month notice period. They have since walked back some of that due to backlash. They're now saying that you have a 6 month notice period (July 1st) and that at some inderterminate time before july 1st they'll let you transfer your account to a normal free google account. You will however lose your email address as part of the process.
    - robbiep 5y ago
      Ahh gotcha. Thanks
- vincentmarle 5y ago
  > apps domain fiasco What happened?
  - davchana 5y ago
    Google Apps for Domains, basically GMail & other services for your own domain. It was free intially, in 2012 I believe they stopped the free version but grandfathered the existing free accounts. Now in 2022 Feb they announced that those free ones are going to cease to exist.
  - chimprich 5y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29996432 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29996432 A service that was supposedly free forever has been shut off with only a few months notice, an aggressive price structure, and no help to migrate data. Poorly communicated and badly executed - par for the course for Google these days.
colesantiago 5y ago
> I don't think anyone should use or recommend these Google services, especially when they have been SO inconsistent about the life, longevity and future of their products. Can we also say the same thing for GKE and Google Cloud since it is also a Google service?
- mdoms 5y ago
  Yes. Obviously.
- ghusto 5y ago
  I think so, yes. I remember reading that the future of Google Cloud was to be determined from how well they did this year. Of course, I'm too lazy to find the source now, but I remember it was here in Hacker News.
  - mrep 5y ago
    Google cloud is at about 20 billion in revenue per year and growing 45% YOY [0] and you think they might just shutter it based on a HN comment? [0]: https://www.fiercetelecom.com/platforms/google-cloud-revenue-jumps-45-but-profit-still-elusive https://www.fiercetelecom.com/platforms/google-cloud-revenue...
    - ghusto 5y ago
      Ha! So they're doing alright then! To clarify the context though, it wasn't a comment, but what was supposed to be an internal memo. However, since I can't find a single trace of this either here or elsewhere, I retract my comment and admit I may just have had too much crack one night.
- dsr_ 5y ago
  Yes. Google's behavior has convinced me that it's perfectly OK to use their services, as long as you don't rely on them. They may terminate your account at no notice, or announce that a service is shutting down or adopting an unworkable pricing scheme at what would be reasonable notice to an individual, but is not acceptable to a business. The worst things seem to happen randomly. They happen to a small percentage, perhaps even a small absolute number of their customers -- but they do happen, and there is no recourse.
londons_explore 5y ago
What I need from Google before using their service for something important is a promise along these lines: > We will keep running this product, with existing functionality substantially unmodified and backwards compatible, for at least 10 years, with pricing not increasing by more than inflation. Or, if we discontinue the product, we will refund 10x the amount you have paid for the product, plus $1000.
- tjoff 5y ago
  That wouldn't be enough, since you'd still have no recourse if you were banned. Just don't use it. It isn't hard to not use google.
  - ChuckMcM 5y ago
    This. The dreaded "Oh we've decided your business violates our vaguely worded terms of service and so we've turned off your account."
    - abdusco 5y ago
      And you can't contact us. Unless you use that one trick we don't want you to know: post it on twitter and go viral. Then it'll all be fixed within the day.
      - Karrot_Kream 5y ago
        Yeah IMO this is the kicker. A block-first process is obnoxious but livable with if there's a clear understanding of why you were blocked and a quick way to fix and notify of remediation actions. Without that the policy is just stupid and anger-inducing.
ChuckMcM 5y ago
This is my feeling as well. When I left in 2010 I shared in my exit interview that they should seriously consider embracing actually investing in customer support and leaning into the idea of a "normal margins[1]" kinds of businesses. I speculated that as their advertising margin continued to deteriorate (it was already going down fairly rapidly by then) that without these sorts of 'base load' businesses to carry the operational costs Google would begin to struggle to maintain goodwill with their "free" services and "lavish" workplace perks. To be fair though I was a lot more pessimistic (which is why I exercised and sold off all of my ISO options and RSU options) so left some money on the table. :-) That said, having gone on to be responsible for operations at Blekko I felt I got a pretty good understanding of the moving pieces associated with the operational costs of providing "web 2.0" services. And that informed a better sense of what level of margin was required. Certainly Amazon does that calculation all the time in pricing their AWS services. So I read this announcement and wished the people who signed up a good experience that didn't leave them high and dry with no where to turn. I've got high hopes and low expectations. [1] Search ads generating a billion dollars a quarter in free cash flow that can be run by a company 1/10th the size of Google is how profitable they were at the time.
- Permit 5y ago
  > When I left in 2010 I shared in my exit interview that they should seriously consider embracing actually investing in customer support and leaning into the idea of a "normal margins[1]" kinds of businesses. I speculated that as their advertising margin continued to deteriorate (it was already going down fairly rapidly by then) that without these sorts of 'base load' businesses to carry the operational costs Google would begin to struggle to maintain goodwill with their "free" services and "lavish" workplace perks. What would it have looked like if you were right about this? What would it look like if you were wrong? I ask because later you mention that you left some money on the table, but it looks more like you left most of it (85%+) on the table (which is fine and impossible to know ahead of time!). It just seems to me like you made some predictions but every metric points to those predictions being incorrect. Have perks been removed? Has compensation fallen?
  - ChuckMcM 5y ago
dark-star 5y ago
I don't see a problem. It's a domain. You can always transfer it somewhere else. It's not like other Google services that hold your data and which you might not be able to get out anymore
- starwatch 5y ago
  The difficulty is that if your account gets suspended, you are unable to do anything - including transfer domains out.
  - thiht 5y ago
    A registrar cannot prevent you from transferring for something that’s not directly related to a domain dispute, that’s an ICANN rule, and a rule of most ccTLDs registries. No registrar can hold you hostage, or that could backfire horribly for them. Meaning they could get their ICANN accreditation revoked and basically get shutdown, and/or paying huge fees.
    - prirun 5y ago
      Here is the contact page for Namesilo, the domain registrar I use: https://www.namesilo.com/contact_us.php https://www.namesilo.com/contact_us.php There are email addresses, a phone number, a physical address, and an online form to contact them. Have you ever tried to contact Google? I have, using a button they designed to contact them about Site migration problems. You think I ever heard back from them? Hell no. So if your gmail account gets hacked, sure - you are supposed to still have control of your domains according to ICANN's rules. But if Google only supports domain changes via email, and you can only contact them via email, and your email doesn't work, I think you'd be completely fucked. And complaining to ICANN about Google would just be pissing up a rope.
kelnos 5y ago
I think a larger worry would be running afoul of one of Google's capricious, difficult-to-reverse account suspensions. I wouldn't want my domain to end up expiring or becoming otherwise inaccessible because Google's algorithms decided to suspend my account over something innocuous I posted on YouTube or put in Google Drive.

vinceguidry 5y ago

Now that it's out of beta I should probably move my domain to somewhere more trustworthy.

Tostino 5y ago
Could be sunset any day now. It's "legacy".
s0rce 5y ago
Thats exactly what I did. Didn't feel like paying $6/mo for gmail. Moved to zoho.
- vinceguidry 5y ago
  I'm on fastmail, happy to pay for reliable service.
- a5aAqU 5y ago
  Another option is Gandi.net, which offers free email with domains.

mmastrac 5y ago

I got burned by the apps domain fiasco this year and it was the final nail in the coffin for me. I'm minimizing my reliance on Google now.

robbiep 5y ago
What was the apps domain fiasco? I have a .app domain. How worried should I be
- greycol 5y ago
  Not the .app domain but the google apps service(now called google workspace (I think... they change the name at the drop of a hat)). They basically removed a free tier that they explicitly guaranteed would be free "forever". Because of this people set up friends and family as users using the service. Google then told people no you have to pay ridiculous amounts per month for them to keep any apps they have already bought tied to your account and there's no way to seperate your account once it's tied in. They did this with a 2 month notice period. They have since walked back some of that due to backlash. They're now saying that you have a 6 month notice period (July 1st) and that at some inderterminate time before july 1st they'll let you transfer your account to a normal free google account. You will however lose your email address as part of the process.
  - robbiep 5y ago
    Ahh gotcha. Thanks
vincentmarle 5y ago
> apps domain fiasco What happened?
- davchana 5y ago
  Google Apps for Domains, basically GMail & other services for your own domain. It was free intially, in 2012 I believe they stopped the free version but grandfathered the existing free accounts. Now in 2022 Feb they announced that those free ones are going to cease to exist.
- chimprich 5y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29996432 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29996432 A service that was supposedly free forever has been shut off with only a few months notice, an aggressive price structure, and no help to migrate data. Poorly communicated and badly executed - par for the course for Google these days.

colesantiago 5y ago

> I don't think anyone should use or recommend these Google services, especially when they have been SO inconsistent about the life, longevity and future of their products. Can we also say the same thing for GKE and Google Cloud since it is also a Google service?

mdoms 5y ago
Yes. Obviously.
ghusto 5y ago
I think so, yes. I remember reading that the future of Google Cloud was to be determined from how well they did this year. Of course, I'm too lazy to find the source now, but I remember it was here in Hacker News.
- mrep 5y ago
  Google cloud is at about 20 billion in revenue per year and growing 45% YOY [0] and you think they might just shutter it based on a HN comment? [0]: https://www.fiercetelecom.com/platforms/google-cloud-revenue-jumps-45-but-profit-still-elusive https://www.fiercetelecom.com/platforms/google-cloud-revenue...
  - ghusto 5y ago
    Ha! So they're doing alright then! To clarify the context though, it wasn't a comment, but what was supposed to be an internal memo. However, since I can't find a single trace of this either here or elsewhere, I retract my comment and admit I may just have had too much crack one night.
dsr_ 5y ago
Yes. Google's behavior has convinced me that it's perfectly OK to use their services, as long as you don't rely on them. They may terminate your account at no notice, or announce that a service is shutting down or adopting an unworkable pricing scheme at what would be reasonable notice to an individual, but is not acceptable to a business. The worst things seem to happen randomly. They happen to a small percentage, perhaps even a small absolute number of their customers -- but they do happen, and there is no recourse.

londons_explore 5y ago

What I need from Google before using their service for something important is a promise along these lines: > We will keep running this product, with existing functionality substantially unmodified and backwards compatible, for at least 10 years, with pricing not increasing by more than inflation. Or, if we discontinue the product, we will refund 10x the amount you have paid for the product, plus $1000.

tjoff 5y ago
That wouldn't be enough, since you'd still have no recourse if you were banned. Just don't use it. It isn't hard to not use google.
- ChuckMcM 5y ago
  This. The dreaded "Oh we've decided your business violates our vaguely worded terms of service and so we've turned off your account."
  - abdusco 5y ago
    And you can't contact us. Unless you use that one trick we don't want you to know: post it on twitter and go viral. Then it'll all be fixed within the day.
    - Karrot_Kream 5y ago
      Yeah IMO this is the kicker. A block-first process is obnoxious but livable with if there's a clear understanding of why you were blocked and a quick way to fix and notify of remediation actions. Without that the policy is just stupid and anger-inducing.

ChuckMcM 5y ago

This is my feeling as well. When I left in 2010 I shared in my exit interview that they should seriously consider embracing actually investing in customer support and leaning into the idea of a "normal margins[1]" kinds of businesses. I speculated that as their advertising margin continued to deteriorate (it was already going down fairly rapidly by then) that without these sorts of 'base load' businesses to carry the operational costs Google would begin to struggle to maintain goodwill with their "free" services and "lavish" workplace perks. To be fair though I was a lot more pessimistic (which is why I exercised and sold off all of my ISO options and RSU options) so left some money on the table. :-) That said, having gone on to be responsible for operations at Blekko I felt I got a pretty good understanding of the moving pieces associated with the operational costs of providing "web 2.0" services. And that informed a better sense of what level of margin was required. Certainly Amazon does that calculation all the time in pricing their AWS services. So I read this announcement and wished the people who signed up a good experience that didn't leave them high and dry with no where to turn. I've got high hopes and low expectations. [1] Search ads generating a billion dollars a quarter in free cash flow that can be run by a company 1/10th the size of Google is how profitable they were at the time.

Permit 5y ago
> When I left in 2010 I shared in my exit interview that they should seriously consider embracing actually investing in customer support and leaning into the idea of a "normal margins[1]" kinds of businesses. I speculated that as their advertising margin continued to deteriorate (it was already going down fairly rapidly by then) that without these sorts of 'base load' businesses to carry the operational costs Google would begin to struggle to maintain goodwill with their "free" services and "lavish" workplace perks. What would it have looked like if you were right about this? What would it look like if you were wrong? I ask because later you mention that you left some money on the table, but it looks more like you left most of it (85%+) on the table (which is fine and impossible to know ahead of time!). It just seems to me like you made some predictions but every metric points to those predictions being incorrect. Have perks been removed? Has compensation fallen?
- ChuckMcM 5y ago

dark-star 5y ago

I don't see a problem. It's a domain. You can always transfer it somewhere else. It's not like other Google services that hold your data and which you might not be able to get out anymore

starwatch 5y ago
The difficulty is that if your account gets suspended, you are unable to do anything - including transfer domains out.
- thiht 5y ago
  A registrar cannot prevent you from transferring for something that’s not directly related to a domain dispute, that’s an ICANN rule, and a rule of most ccTLDs registries. No registrar can hold you hostage, or that could backfire horribly for them. Meaning they could get their ICANN accreditation revoked and basically get shutdown, and/or paying huge fees.
  - prirun 5y ago
    Here is the contact page for Namesilo, the domain registrar I use: https://www.namesilo.com/contact_us.php https://www.namesilo.com/contact_us.php There are email addresses, a phone number, a physical address, and an online form to contact them. Have you ever tried to contact Google? I have, using a button they designed to contact them about Site migration problems. You think I ever heard back from them? Hell no. So if your gmail account gets hacked, sure - you are supposed to still have control of your domains according to ICANN's rules. But if Google only supports domain changes via email, and you can only contact them via email, and your email doesn't work, I think you'd be completely fucked. And complaining to ICANN about Google would just be pissing up a rope.

kelnos 5y ago

I think a larger worry would be running afoul of one of Google's capricious, difficult-to-reverse account suspensions. I wouldn't want my domain to end up expiring or becoming otherwise inaccessible because Google's algorithms decided to suspend my account over something innocuous I posted on YouTube or put in Google Drive.