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Sure but what if that scion FR-S now has an electric motor at the same price point? Or the Prius gets an electric motor at that same price point? That's the thi

Sure but what if that scion FR-S now has an electric motor at the same price point? Or the Prius gets an electric motor at that same price point? That's the thing with electric cars, you can make most of them insanely powerful off the line without making them into a full on sports car. I definitely drove like an idiot with our full size passenger van when I was a teenager. Hazard is when all cars have instant torque.

sliken 5y ago
I'd say it's safer, and unlikely to have a significantly different overall performance. Sure 0-30 mph is likely faster, full torque instantly does that. But instant torque leads to less surprises. In my WRX I did have a moment where my prediction of how things would play out was wrong, so I hustled and a second or 2 later (thanks ICE lag + turbo lag) I was in an unintentional 4 wheel slide. Ended fine (WRX is very predictable when sliding), but instant torque just makes things easier. Generally the lower the performance of a car, the longer in the future you have to predict your power needs, which makes things like on ramps, highway passing (especially on uphills), and of course getting across intersections quickly. I think one correction for the OP is that while instant torque is a huge change for the driver, it's not so for anyone outside the car. Much of the lag in the throttle, engine (waiting for RPMs to increase), torque converter, automatic to shift, driveline slack, etc is invisible to people outside. What pedestrian notices is the launch after all that happens, and said launch is much like an EV launch. Sure $50-$75k Teslas are quick, but I don't expect cheaper EVs to be particularly faster than the cheaper gas cars.
- anonfornoreason 5y ago
  It will be interesting to see how the numbers shake out. I've just known too many drivers that can't even keep a constant throttle, so making throttle response instantaneous is problematic. Analogy: my kid has an electric dirt bike, and it has a knob to control throttle response, and a knob to control speed. He can rock top speed, but he still can't handle more than 1/3rd up the dial on throttle response. He doesn't have good enough throttle control to handle the torque, and this is a tiny little thing. I base much of my thoughts off the experience of working with him to learn throttle control (he accidentally power slides in turns all the time, which is iffy on a dirtbike for a kid), and my experience with other drivers.
  - sliken 5y ago
    I came from a Forester Turbo XT, it's a lesson on non-linearity. Each RPM speed has range of power that depends on how spun up the turbo speed. So RPM X might be 100HP without turbo, to 150HP once the exhaust pressure results in higher turbo speed, which results in more air in the engine, which results in a more turbo speed. Took a fair bit of experience to get used to it. It was quite fun to drive though. I found switching to an EV dramatically easier to drive, despite having about twice the performance. Nearly every driver on the planet handles nearly 1G braking on nearly every car on the planet from the last decade, even the outliers like the cars with drum brakes. The improved modern brake caused no rash of problems with over braking, no huge spike in crashes, no calls for strong laws to control braking speeds. Why should accelerating at nearly 1G be any different than braking at 1G? The key to safe driving is predictable performance, giving drivers what they expect.

sliken 5y ago

I'd say it's safer, and unlikely to have a significantly different overall performance. Sure 0-30 mph is likely faster, full torque instantly does that. But instant torque leads to less surprises. In my WRX I did have a moment where my prediction of how things would play out was wrong, so I hustled and a second or 2 later (thanks ICE lag + turbo lag) I was in an unintentional 4 wheel slide. Ended fine (WRX is very predictable when sliding), but instant torque just makes things easier. Generally the lower the performance of a car, the longer in the future you have to predict your power needs, which makes things like on ramps, highway passing (especially on uphills), and of course getting across intersections quickly. I think one correction for the OP is that while instant torque is a huge change for the driver, it's not so for anyone outside the car. Much of the lag in the throttle, engine (waiting for RPMs to increase), torque converter, automatic to shift, driveline slack, etc is invisible to people outside. What pedestrian notices is the launch after all that happens, and said launch is much like an EV launch. Sure $50-$75k Teslas are quick, but I don't expect cheaper EVs to be particularly faster than the cheaper gas cars.

anonfornoreason 5y ago
It will be interesting to see how the numbers shake out. I've just known too many drivers that can't even keep a constant throttle, so making throttle response instantaneous is problematic. Analogy: my kid has an electric dirt bike, and it has a knob to control throttle response, and a knob to control speed. He can rock top speed, but he still can't handle more than 1/3rd up the dial on throttle response. He doesn't have good enough throttle control to handle the torque, and this is a tiny little thing. I base much of my thoughts off the experience of working with him to learn throttle control (he accidentally power slides in turns all the time, which is iffy on a dirtbike for a kid), and my experience with other drivers.
- sliken 5y ago
  I came from a Forester Turbo XT, it's a lesson on non-linearity. Each RPM speed has range of power that depends on how spun up the turbo speed. So RPM X might be 100HP without turbo, to 150HP once the exhaust pressure results in higher turbo speed, which results in more air in the engine, which results in a more turbo speed. Took a fair bit of experience to get used to it. It was quite fun to drive though. I found switching to an EV dramatically easier to drive, despite having about twice the performance. Nearly every driver on the planet handles nearly 1G braking on nearly every car on the planet from the last decade, even the outliers like the cars with drum brakes. The improved modern brake caused no rash of problems with over braking, no huge spike in crashes, no calls for strong laws to control braking speeds. Why should accelerating at nearly 1G be any different than braking at 1G? The key to safe driving is predictable performance, giving drivers what they expect.