4 ms·

The answer to this is related to the answer of: "would you prefer to be in the lower class of Norwegian society or the lower class of nearby Belarussian society

• naoqj 5y ago
  Do you think the difference in the standard of life is because of "having the moral ground"?
  • drewcoo 5y ago
    If morals are how we maintain and encourage the well-being of other humans, then yes.
    • thereisnospork 5y ago
      At this risk of being pedantic: the question isn't how we maintain the well-being of other humans, it is how we maintain the well-being of our humans[0] and frankly there's a lot to be said for boot-to-neck diplomacy. [0]Specifically here our non-upper crust humans.
      • worik 5y ago
        > At this risk of being pedantic: the question isn't how we maintain the well-being of other humans, it is how we maintain the well-being of our humans[0] and frankly there's a lot to be said for boot-to-neck diplomacy. That attitude with the associated American power was a complete catastrophe for: * Iraq. * Nicaragua * Panama * Cuba * Afghanistan
        • thereisnospork 5y ago
          A catastrophe for America (Americans) or for the countries listed and their people? Only one of those is relevant.[0] My greater point here is that global politics is an inherently amoral game. By extension a morality-based strategy is inherently sub-optimal. [0]addendum: To be clear there are definitely arguments to be made that some or all of them weren't good for Americans (e.g. loss of global goodwill may have resulted in less favorable trade agreements).
          • worik 5y ago
            War is not an extension of "diplomacy by other means". War is a crime. The war crimes I listed were a catastrophe for everybody connected.
            • naniwaduni 5y ago
              The idea that war is a crime at the international scale is underpinned by the threat of war, just as the idea that murder is a crime at the personal scale is underpinned by the threat of murder. We fully intentionally put a lot of steps in between because it turns out that dying sucks a lot,[citation needed] but the fact that they stand between radical disruption of quality, er, quantity of life is what gives those steps weight. That is to say, war is not other means. It is the primal means of diplomacy from which all others spring forth.
              • the_af 5y ago
                > That is to say, war is not other means. It is the primal means of diplomacy from which all others spring forth. I'm not sure I understand what you're arguing here. Let me spell out my alternative interpretations and tell me which (if any) is what you meant: a- War is the primary principle or tool of diplomacy. It is by the threat of war that diplomacy without violence can work. b- Like a-, but with the implication this is the right way, and there's no other non-violent means for humans to resolve their disagreements and organize themselves at the world level. It will always be "my way, or a club to the head". c- Like a-, but with the implication this is a historical artifact and reflects a sad state of affairs, and that true diplomacy will find a way to work without resorting to the threat of violence. Or at least, that this is a goal worth striving for, even if humans are imperfect. The distinction matters, because a- and b- make it easy to jump to the conclusion "in this case" violence is warranted ("I hate war, but this is a just war!") and that "boot to neck" diplomacy is sometimes needed and unavoidable. Whereas option c- will always consider resorting to violence a kind of failure and not something to celebrate or chest-thump about.
              • worik 5y ago
                No. Diplomacy is not crime. Try living in a small country!
  • Enginerrrd 5y ago
    Given how easily corruption rots things.... I'd say definitively yes. I remember, I took part in a modeling competition trying to create a sustainability index for countries. During my analysis phase I realized that almost everything measurably bad you can think of correlated astoundingly well with the corruption index for that country. Even what seemed like very distant externalities.
  • worik 5y ago
    Partly, yes. It is echoes of the respect one human has for another.