7 ms·

>But jeering, booing and taunting, that’s a step too far. That no longer protesting a speaker as part of a free debate, but instead attacking them as an individ

by YATA0 5y ago

>But jeering, booing and taunting, that’s a step too far. That no longer protesting a speaker as part of a free debate, but instead attacking them as an individual in the hopes of cowing them into submission. That would remove a significant portion of campus leftists.

happymellon 5y ago
Are you saying that it's right or unacceptable from anyone? Because it sounds like you are trying to turn it into whataboutism.
- YATA0 5y ago
  >Are you saying that it's right or unacceptable from anyone? Are you asking for my personal opinion, the opinion of college administration, the opinion of student bodies, etc.? >Because it sounds like you are trying to turn it into whataboutism. It's not whataboutism because campus leftists have been doing exactly what the OP described: "But jeering, booing and taunting, that’s a step too far. That no longer protesting a speaker as part of a free debate, but instead attacking them as an individual in the hopes of cowing them into submission." That's the MO for campus "cancel culture".
  - happymellon 5y ago
    I'm asking for your opinion, because you are trying to distract from unacceptable behaviour by saying "but the left..." > It's not whataboutism because campus leftists Thank you for confirming that you are unable to have discourse without blaming people uninvolved in the situation via whataboutism.
    - YATA0 5y ago
      >I'm asking for your opinion Students should be cordial and have spirited debate free of jeering and taunting. That used to be the standard. >because you are trying to distract from unacceptable behaviour by saying "but the left..." This is a non sequitur. I am not trying to distract anyone, I'm pointing out that if the standard is to exclude those who jeer, taunt, and attack the individual in the hopes of cowing them into submission, then this would lead to large portions of campus leftist being punished. >Thank you for confirming That wasn't a confirmation, you literally proved my point for me. >unable to have discourse without blaming people uninvolved in the situation via whataboutism. This is by definition not whataboutism because I am not attempting to discredit the OPs position. QED. Thank you for confirming that you are incapable of having discourse because you are incapable of understanding basic concepts like whataboutism and are T R I G G E R E D because someone called out leftists as those partaking in unacceptable behavior.
tomrod 5y ago
Correct, in that it would remove extremists who jeer, boo, and taunt. A consistent policy that is the tradeoff of living in a society that honors free speech. To be fair, it would also remove most Proud Boys and other right-aligned extremists one reads about in the recent news. It would allow well-behaved Nazi sympathizers and other Alt-Right folks, like Bannon and Milo and many right-wing newsfolks, to be able to speak at forums unless the universities recognize that giving a platform to people driven by pseudo-racial nationalism or other incoherent worldviews advocating for violence is a not part of their charter. So, in other words, its a tradeoff.
- throwntoday 5y ago
  The overwhelming majority of students in all university campuses are left leaning. Conservative ideas seem to become more appealing with maturity. Also helps to be a taxpayer/homeowner/parent.
  - tomrod 5y ago
    Is that true? The overwhelming majority are centrist and left leaning? Curious. I've heard thst statement as a talking point but haven't wasted the time to source it from Pew or other reputable sources since it's only come up in conversation with nationalist uncles at Thanksgiving. Mind showing your research?
    - bko 5y ago
      > But research suggests that there is a neglected dimension of polarization, one driven by age: younger people are disproportionately liberal, and then drift steadily to the right, becoming just as disproportionately conservative by retirement age... “We can say, with a great deal of confidence, that people get more conservative when they get older—and a lot more,” says Chicago Booth’s Sam Peltzman, who conducted the research. “It’s not just a little bit. It’s a pretty big change over their lifetime.” https://www.chicagobooth.edu/review/there-are-two-americas-and-age-divider https://www.chicagobooth.edu/review/there-are-two-americas-a...

by YATA0 5y ago

happymellon 5y ago

Are you saying that it's right or unacceptable from anyone? Because it sounds like you are trying to turn it into whataboutism.

YATA0 5y ago
>Are you saying that it's right or unacceptable from anyone? Are you asking for my personal opinion, the opinion of college administration, the opinion of student bodies, etc.? >Because it sounds like you are trying to turn it into whataboutism. It's not whataboutism because campus leftists have been doing exactly what the OP described: "But jeering, booing and taunting, that’s a step too far. That no longer protesting a speaker as part of a free debate, but instead attacking them as an individual in the hopes of cowing them into submission." That's the MO for campus "cancel culture".
- happymellon 5y ago
  I'm asking for your opinion, because you are trying to distract from unacceptable behaviour by saying "but the left..." > It's not whataboutism because campus leftists Thank you for confirming that you are unable to have discourse without blaming people uninvolved in the situation via whataboutism.
  - YATA0 5y ago
    >I'm asking for your opinion Students should be cordial and have spirited debate free of jeering and taunting. That used to be the standard. >because you are trying to distract from unacceptable behaviour by saying "but the left..." This is a non sequitur. I am not trying to distract anyone, I'm pointing out that if the standard is to exclude those who jeer, taunt, and attack the individual in the hopes of cowing them into submission, then this would lead to large portions of campus leftist being punished. >Thank you for confirming That wasn't a confirmation, you literally proved my point for me. >unable to have discourse without blaming people uninvolved in the situation via whataboutism. This is by definition not whataboutism because I am not attempting to discredit the OPs position. QED. Thank you for confirming that you are incapable of having discourse because you are incapable of understanding basic concepts like whataboutism and are T R I G G E R E D because someone called out leftists as those partaking in unacceptable behavior.

tomrod 5y ago

Correct, in that it would remove extremists who jeer, boo, and taunt. A consistent policy that is the tradeoff of living in a society that honors free speech. To be fair, it would also remove most Proud Boys and other right-aligned extremists one reads about in the recent news. It would allow well-behaved Nazi sympathizers and other Alt-Right folks, like Bannon and Milo and many right-wing newsfolks, to be able to speak at forums unless the universities recognize that giving a platform to people driven by pseudo-racial nationalism or other incoherent worldviews advocating for violence is a not part of their charter. So, in other words, its a tradeoff.

throwntoday 5y ago
The overwhelming majority of students in all university campuses are left leaning. Conservative ideas seem to become more appealing with maturity. Also helps to be a taxpayer/homeowner/parent.
- tomrod 5y ago
  Is that true? The overwhelming majority are centrist and left leaning? Curious. I've heard thst statement as a talking point but haven't wasted the time to source it from Pew or other reputable sources since it's only come up in conversation with nationalist uncles at Thanksgiving. Mind showing your research?
  - bko 5y ago
    > But research suggests that there is a neglected dimension of polarization, one driven by age: younger people are disproportionately liberal, and then drift steadily to the right, becoming just as disproportionately conservative by retirement age... “We can say, with a great deal of confidence, that people get more conservative when they get older—and a lot more,” says Chicago Booth’s Sam Peltzman, who conducted the research. “It’s not just a little bit. It’s a pretty big change over their lifetime.” https://www.chicagobooth.edu/review/there-are-two-americas-and-age-divider https://www.chicagobooth.edu/review/there-are-two-americas-a...