25 ms·

The Ford Mustang Mach-E and the danger of electric cars

31 points by vwoolf 5y ago

nunez 5y ago
who is this guy?
vwoolf 5y ago
This essay is consistent with my feelings. In particular, the ending paragraphs: "Ultimately, my fondest wish is that I lived somewhere where I didn't want or need a car at all. I hate cars. I hate driving. I really hate other people's driving, and other people's cars." I wish the same, but those wishes seem not to be sufficiently widely shared for them to appear in local and state elections, and so we see the world in which we sadly live. In the U.S., L.A. appears to be the only city somewhat on the way to having a real, large-scale, and functional rail transit system, and even that is occurring with aching slowness.
- jnwatson 5y ago
  Mixed-use developments are a thing. They are common on the East coast. Just move into one. I live in one. I still have a car, but pretty much only use it on the weekend.
- jayd16 5y ago
  I love LA but what? There are some plans but clearly NY and SF have better rail, to name a few.
  - otterley 5y ago
    SF's is pretty bad, too. To be sure, SF's is better than LA's, but LA's is a pretty low bar. BART and CalTrain provide good coverage to the cities directly around the Bay itself, but once you get to the outer suburbs, service falls off dramatically (and none at all north of SF, in Marin and Sonoma counties). And don't get me started on the pathetic state of public transit in the city itself. Muni is disgusting, unsafe-feeling, unreliable, and slow. Even LA's metro buses are better than SF's. Chicago, OTOH, has an outstanding public transit infrastructure.
    - ricardobayes 5y ago
      I thought Caltrain was pretty good?
      - ghaff 5y ago
        The problem with commuter rails in general is that they basically support, well, commuting. Where I live (well) outside Boston, my commuter rail line is a decent option to go in for a 9-5 job or event. (Decent. At least for now they've cut back some trains and eliminated the expresses so it's over 90 minutes door to door.) But it's pretty much useless for going in for an evening event. I'd basically have to hang around for an 11:30 train and get home after 1.
      - kemiller 5y ago
        Caltrain itself is fine, though not the fastest. But the connections at the suburban end are terrible making it not as useful as it might be.
- woah 5y ago
  My pet theory is that driving is a viral system and this is why it has triumphed. - Cars are a lowest common denominator for transportation. They do not require much infrastructure at first, and are a very easy way to get around when not many other people are driving. - Once enough people are driving, the downsides start to become apparent. But roads can be upgraded incrementally and drivers become a powerful interest groups since people have invested their livelihood into it by moving somewhere you need to drive to. - So it's a ratchet mechanism where people get locked into a transportation choice, and then force it to be expanded and catered to. Public transit does not have this dynamic. While cheaper in the long run, train lines are very expensive to build at first.
  - lbriner 5y ago
    > While cheaper in the long run, train lines are very expensive to build at first. As much as I would like that to be true, I don't think it is. The safety-critical nature of railways, more so even than a coach/bus which might travel almost as fast as a slower train, means there are massive costs for maintaining railways, based partly on use but not always. I asked my MP (representative) the other day about why it was so expensive to travel on trains when there should be a massive economy of scale but she didn't understand the question. A return ticket for an approx 150km journey might be around £100 in the UK, whereas the gasoline cost would be maybe £40 + some small percentage of my yearly insurance and maintenance costs.
    - petschge 5y ago
      True cost of driving a car is typically more than twice the fuel price. So the train ticket is not that bad value. The car is just hiding a lot of the cost away in the form of registration, insurance, depreciation, repairs and so on that you don't associate with a single trip. That makes the car trip seem cheaper than it is.
      - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
        The train to commute from an outlying city into Boston is ~$400/mo. On a pure cost basis that's just about equivalent to a compact car assuming you have to pay for unsubsidized parking in Boston or thereabouts and with the car option you also get a car that you can use wherever and whenever you want.
- chasd00 5y ago
  "I hate cars. I hate driving. I really hate other people's driving, and other people's cars." heh why would someone who hates cars with the passion of a thousand suns review one? I enjoy driving, I don't enjoy traffic but i do like road trips. I live in Dallas and regularly do weekend trips all over Texas, SE Oklahoma, and Arkansas. It's relaxing to me.
  - plorkyeran 5y ago
    Those of us that hate cars still sometimes need them too, and a review from someone who also hates cars is more relevant than one from someone who lvoes them.
    - mkr-hn 5y ago
      Not enough people appreciate the value of a reviewer with matching goals and needs.
- JackFr 5y ago
  > In the U.S., L.A. appears to be the only city somewhat on the way to having a real, large-scale, and functional rail transit system, and even that is occurring with aching slowness. Huh? I've lived in NY for 25 years and have never owned a car.
  - ghaff 5y ago
    The thing with NY is that it not only has an extensive public transit system but there's no cultural expectation for you to own a car. And even if you owned one, getting out of the city is a bit of a pain so I'm guessing people don't do it on weekends, much less weeknights, as much as they do other places. Whereas somewhere like Boston, a lot of your friends probably live in the suburbs and do weekend activities in the mountains or wherever. You can get off without one--I'm sure people do--but, especially as you get older, it affects your activities to at least some degree.
- YATA0 5y ago
  >In the U.S., L.A. appears to be the only city somewhat on the way to having a real, large-scale, and functional rail transit system, and even that is occurring with aching slowness. You misspelled N.Y. L.A. barely has a train system in comparison. L.A.'s train system is hot garbage and goes practically nowhere. L.A. is one of the most car dependent cities in the US.
oblio 5y ago
It's worse than he says. Not only do EV have stunning acceleration which grandpa will most likely not be able to control, they're extremely heavy, especially at the bottom end. From what I've read a VW Golf weighs between 1300 - 1600kg. A VW ID.3, practically the same car but electric, weighs between 1800 - 1900kg. That's a small car weighing as much as a bigger, older ICE SUV. An almost 40% weight increase over the equivalent ICE. Battery weight will really need to go down. Plus we're going to have to really upgrade road infrastructure to make it safer.
- speedgoose 5y ago
  A BMW i3 is lighter than a VW Golf. A Dacia spring is even lighter, and extremely slow.
  - JaimeThompson 5y ago
    Dacia? Good news!
  - tonyedgecombe 5y ago
    The i3 is built out of carbon fibre, that was never going to be viable for a mainstream car like the Golf. The Dacia Spring is comparable to the VW Up which is two tiers down from the Golf.
- saiya-jin 5y ago
  They don't need to have so many HP, I can imagine battery would last much longer in city environment / slow traffic if cars accelerated like their ICE counterparts, with extra safety as a nice bonus. But marketing sells and people act on emotions. So people who got into electric cars suddenly drive harder, creating more pollution ie from tyres and brake discs (that added weight makes this also much worse). It ain't fun for lungs and overall health to breath in metallic or burned rubber nanoparticles. It looks like we will change visible pollution in the cities for less visible, but at least as deadly one.
  - mark-r 5y ago
elzbardico 5y ago
Not all EVs are going to be Teslas or Mustangs or Porsches. Those are very expensive vehicles and attract the brunt of the media coverage because they are exciting, but I don't think they are going to be the majority of the cars just like we don't see hellcats everywhere.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  When the Hellcat tax brackets start getting their hands on electric jet skis and dirtbikes, the ensuing hand wringing is probably gonna start a fire.
- MisterTea 5y ago
  Ill say this, they need to release some exciting models otherwise the bros and other masculine types will walk away from electric cars thinking they are for tree hugging hippies, liberals, progressives, environmentalists, yuppies, etc.
  - abakker 5y ago
    A lot of judgement in this comment over people's preferences. If some people don't enjoy the performance characteristics, looks, or limited utility of a prius, this does not make them unreasonable. EV trucks, sportscars, and SUVs really can't come soon enough because those solve different problems for different people. Not everyone uses their car to commute to an office.
  - elzbardico 5y ago
    In that case I would say that yes, probably it worked for me. I see no reason to apologize for being what you call a masculine type.
- tomatotomato37 5y ago
  Yeah, I was about to say the road to the Mach-E is littered with failed electric ecoboxes with abysmal power-to-weight ratios and HP figures more suited to mopeds. Just because your first experience with a electric vehicle is a sports marque doesn't mean all electrics are ultimately going to end up like that
marshallward 5y ago
TIL that a 2009 car is "extremely old".
- marssaxman 5y ago
  That cracked me up too. How young is this author? I just sold my 1992 Range Rover, after owning it for a decade. I'm hoping not to buy another car for a while, but if I had to, 2009 is at the newer end of anything I'd be looking at.
  - mikestew 5y ago
    I just sold my 1992 Range Rover, after owning it for a decade. I don't know that your example makes the point. That vehicle if so old, most states will issue special historical/classic/antique plates is you ask. I'll agree that 2009 isn't all that old, but cars can get pretty ratty after 13 years, especially if one is "not a car guy". Besides, as Indiana Jones said, it's not the years, it's the mileage.
    - marssaxman 5y ago
      I don't know that I had much of a point beyond amusement at the degree to which people's perspectives vary. I suppose I am as much of an outlier as this article's author is, just in the opposite direction. That old Rover made it past 200k miles; its interior got pretty worn, but it still ran as reliably as any other vehicle I've had. I'd be driving it still, if some jackass hadn't hacked the catalytic converters out of it one night.
avalys 5y ago
“I hate cars. I hate driving. I really hate other people's driving, and other people's cars. EVs are such an enormous leap forward in environmental terms that it feels somewhat perverse to question them, but nonetheless, despite all the hype, despite all the fun, it's worth remembering that the top priority — not just for climate hawks but for humanists of all sorts — should be reducing the need for, and number of, cars.” I love cars and I love driving. How about you live your life and I’ll live mine, okay?
- ed312 5y ago
  You're dangerously close to wrongthink. You must express hatred for cars, love living in high-density cities, and disdain for anyone who dares to want the option to live differently. (/s, hopefully obvious) I too love cars and driving. I hate commuting via car, so I set up my life to not do that. I also dislike people pushing the blame of bad driving on _cars_ and _car manufacturers_. People are _chosing_ to interact with infotainment, use their phone, and generally not pay attention. I don't think we need more regulation, but to treat distracted driving the same way we treat drunk driving (which isn't really good enough, but a start).
- kfarr 5y ago
  Driving has negative externalities so it’s not that simple
  - avalys 5y ago
    everything has negative externalities.
maxdo 5y ago
I don't agree. Looks like a Ford promo. The very basic of physics shows a direct dependency between how quickly car can accelerate to how fast it can stop. So faster car also stops better. In the very end, if the vehicle is balanced it's not a big issue. My Tesla Model Y performance that is doing 0 to 60 in 3.5 seconds stops immediately in any city environment. It has very small reaction distance. My old toyota wasn't able to do so. Thanks to wide tires and breaks that doesnt degrade as fast due to one pedal driving. One the highway the story is similar, yes the car can speed up faster, but it's up to a driver what is the final speed. My performance model is much more stable has far better and smarter control compares to almost any gasoline car. In the very end it quite often prevents many potential incidents.
- ancientworldnow 5y ago
  This is funny considering multiple tests minus a few outlier publications have Tesla model 3's and Y's boasting some of the worst braking results of cars in their size category. Granted, maybe they've since changed the brakes as they frequently modify models.
- saiya-jin 5y ago
  By far the best control of any car is the driver, not some technical gimmicks. If you need a computer to drive safely to ie stay in the lane or keep safe distance from car ahead, there is the issue on your side. I've turned all of these off in my car, so that I know 100% the time I need to be aware of my surroundings and do decisions myself. Happily will accept full driving mode in 10-20 years, but anything in between has a lot of hidden pitfalls.
- sliken 5y ago
  Not really. Generally a wide variety of cars will have a widely varying acceleration numbers (3x or more), but a pretty narrow (less than 1/3rd) spectrum of stopping distances. Physics it's just the friction coefficient of the tires, not car weight/tire diameter/tire width that matter. Sure real world considerations (like roads that aren't perfectly flat) do intrude a bit, but not much. Generally stopping distances (for modern vehicles) are related more to tire choice than anything else. Sure a stiff suspension helps minimize weight transfer and you lose less when a single tire hits a bump, but it's a small factor. Acceleration numbers can easily be a 3x difference, The slowest car in the USA is the Nissan Kicks has a 60-0 distance of less than 120 feet, even with crude drum brakes. A corvette with the special z51 performance package has a stopping distance of 108.4 feet. Sure if you stop 10 times from 60-0 without cool down, brake design and cooling make a big difference, but for normal road use (not racing on a track) it's not particularly relevant.
hbarka 5y ago
He had me until “It’s not clear Americans can handle this kind of power”. David Roberts would like to you to use a dull knife because you can’t handle a sharp knife. Here’s his intro bio: “I should note that I’m not a car guy. I don’t know much about them, don’t much like them, and don’t much like driving them. I never learned to drive a stick shift or change the oil. I don’t drool over muscle cars or know what “hemi” means. Truth be told, I kind of hate car culture.” Further on he has an opinion on what American drivers can handle. There’s literally thousands of Teslas on the road and he has fears of them “leaping” across intersections. How about some facts from IIHS: https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/with-more-electric-vehicles-comes-more-proof-of-safety https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/with-more-electric-vehicles...
- tyingq 5y ago
  >There’s literally thousands of Teslas on the road and he has fears of them “leaping” across intersections. Seems fair, given that some of them come with a "launch control mode / drag strip mode" right in the UI, expressly for the purpose of doing that.
  - avalys 5y ago
    Expressly for the purpose of leaping across intersections, specifically?
    - tyingq 5y ago
      I suspect if you did some research on where that mode was used, intersections would far surpass "at my local dragstrip", yes. And I don't think that would be a surprise to Tesla.
      - giantg2 5y ago
        I suspect that the data would also show that it's rarely used at all.
        5y ago
eptcyka 5y ago
Whilst I empathize with the authors wishes to change cities and people to necessitate less cars, I don't want to walk with my neighbors. Much the same way I can't relate to the meatputers operating tonnes of metal powered by paleolithic compost (either by local or remote combustion), I despise those same meatputers when I encounter them on the sidewalk. But, to be less cynical about fellow human beings, a lot of my peers choose to not have a car way into their 30s. Lots of people choose to be part of car clubs, where you can share a car effectively across multiple households. I did that for a while too, but the limitations of car sharing make them too cumbersome, more on this later. I expect that there will be less privately owned cars in 10-15 years in the urban areas of the UK. However, I don't believe any of the smaller (less than 100'000 people) communities will ever be able to get out of the perils of private car ownership, as the geographical sparsity will force people to use cars. To not have a disproportionate negative impact on the lives of the people who choose not to live in big cities, instead of legislating cars out of existence, cars should be downsized, electrified and made to be more efficient - there is very little reason why most regular families should transport their own 300kg of human matter by also transporting 1500kg of metal in the process. Point being, in cities where the population density allows for all the infrastructure to lead a good quality of life, lets decrease car ownership, but let's not leave the people who live in smaller communities and rely on cars in the dust. As for car clubs, it seems the pricing model is hostile towards road-trips, yet I wouldn't ever want to rent the car for a shopping trip. I have a car mainly for the luxury to explore the country around me on my own terms. And since the car is shared, I'm disallowed from taking my dog with me.
- tonyedgecombe 5y ago
  >I don't want to walk with my neighbors You don't have to go along holding hands on your trip to the shop. All it needs is a smile and "good morning". >Point being, in cities where the population density allows for all the infrastructure to lead a good quality of life, lets decrease car ownership, but let's not leave the people who live in smaller communities and rely on cars in the dust. I have a feeling the people who are going to be left in the dust are the poor, as always.
  - 5y ago
Kapura 5y ago
It's very funny to read the highs and lows from "not a car guy." The big secret about modern cars is that a new Camry is roughly on the quality level of luxury cars from 10-15 years ago. As you spend more, you get more, but cars are really better than they've ever been in more ways than just power. However, I don't think that cars being more fun than ever before is contrary to goals of reducing how much the average person drives. Better cars, fun, torquey EVs, and the like are not what is stopping construction of protected bike lanes and light rail. Having cars that have sucked for decades has not slowed the expansion of car-centric suburban sprawl around cities like Denver and Seattle. A personal anecdote: last year I moved to another state, and I looked for housing with a lot of my core needs within walking distance. Having secured this, I proceeded to buy the most fun, least practical car my budget would allow. It's OK to want infrastructure that doesn't cater to cars, but still enjoy driving for driving's own sake.
abakker 5y ago
I can't figure out what his point is? Is it that the Mustang a decent car with a lot of power and a weird UI? seems like a reasonable review, but this is not a review. This is a dude with a blog passing judgement on a lot of other people - a guy who admits he doesn't like cars things other people also shouldn't? Sure, walking is great, and so would better urban design be, but it doesn't have anything to do with electric cars or not. He theorizes that more fun driving means more driving...I don't know...there's a lot of fun gas cars that get driven rarely. Also, almost any car might be more fun that a 2000s honda odyssey. Not a high bar. I think the point this misses is that EVs are, in the long run, a MUCH better option than gas cars, despite any drawbacks.
- jnwatson 5y ago
  The reviewer is clearly someone that’s never driven a luxury car. Luxury cars have all the features he’s talking about. Luxury cars have good acceleration. Yes, EVs have better acceleration, but not dramatically better than a typical sports car.
gwbas1c 5y ago
> The other thing is, the acceleration puts an enormous amount of power in your hands. That's why it's called "Mustang."
mikestew 5y ago
I might, might go along with the pearl-clutching if I didn’t live in Redmond, WA, where you can’t swing a dead feline without hitting a Tesla. And my wife goes out of her way to point out a Tesla that is accelerating at anything but “old person going to Sunday church service” mode, just because it is so seldom witnessed. In other words, for all of Tesla’s hype about Scottish tartan mode, most of the ones we see can’t get out of their own way. Which is fine, no need to go tearing down the road just because you can, and you’ll save on tires. But this isn’t the first time rip-roarin’ vehicles have been sold to the public. Motorcycles, even slow ones, will stomp most cars from a light or 1/4 mile. And, yeah, folks plow into things with them on occasion. But it’s generally failure to negotiate a turn that causes moto accidents, not outrageous acceleration. So we already have the prior art of Teslas and motorcycles, and the world hasn’t ended. In fact, this is the first such worry I’ve heard about EVs. As I’ve said about fast motorcycles: the throttle is not binary.
- mark-r 5y ago
  I've noticed a lot more Teslas in the Minneapolis area too. Not quite the way you describe, I still go most days without seeing one. But now it's not unique to see multiple on a single outing.
  - mikestew 5y ago
    I still go most days without seeing one I can't do that even if I don't leave the house. There's a school near our house, and there are a lot of Tesla school buses that drive by. :-) But multiples in a single outing? How about multiples at the same intersection? It is not uncommon to see three at a stoplight, all pointing different directions, and all the same color even. Even in the heyday of MSFT stock options, I don't think I'd see that many cars of a single luxury brand everywhere I go. It's cool and all, yet strangely bizarre at the same time. Like Tesla ownership is a rite of passage for Microsoft employees or something. :-) So you can imagine how strange it is to me when we travel to visit my parents in central FL, and don't see a single one the whole time.
throwaway_dcnt 5y ago
The author makes some valid points but I would like to live in a world where we can all get what we want without imposing our choices on others. With synthetic fuels and efficient combustion engines on the horizons, I applaud and am excited about the choices we will have and I am happy to do my part to counter the negatives (by using mass transit when I can, using electric cars for commutes and school runs, planting trees). In return, I would like to own and use my exciting ICE cars on race tracks, for fun trips and even grocery runs occasionally. Let's find the balance, without imposing our ideas on everyone.
- tonyedgecombe 5y ago
  >The author makes some valid points but I would like to live in a world where we can all get what we want without imposing our choices on others. We don't live in that world though do we. For a very long time the car has been absolutely dominant. Any thought at provision for pedestrians, cyclists or public transport has been squeezed out by the car lobby. All we are talking about is some rebalancing.
zitterbewegung 5y ago
Driver assistance to not get into an accident is more likely to save lives instead of taking them. I’m not sure why the author thinks that cars with a linear acceleration will kill more people considering driving is the most dangerous method of transportation. The bigger problem of driver assistance making people careless is when it’s advertised to do more than it should be doing . The biggest problem right now about driver assistance is how certain companies market it as better than it really is.
gnicholas 5y ago
Relatedly, a friend of mine has said he's seen a huge uptick in injured senior/adults riding ebikes on the (paved) bike trail near his home. Ebikes allow riders who are not practiced to ride at ~20 MPH for extended periods of time. These people may not have the reaction time needed to ride safely at this speed. Previously, only people in very good shape could ride this fast for more than a short burst, and this acted as a filter (because getting in good shape typically involved riding a lot). It's not the same issue as with cars, since fast acceleration isn't new, and every driver has driven at high speed (even if not quickly accelerating). But it is an interesting trend resulting from high-powered electric motors.
- tonyedgecombe 5y ago
  The same thing has happened in the Netherlands. I'm not sure it is down to the speed (they are restricted to 25kmh/16mph there) but rather that older people are cycling more often and further than they otherwise would. My mileage has tripled since I got an eBike so an accident is now roughly three times as likely.
- sliken 5y ago
  I've an experienced bicyclist, commuted most days of my adult life, did bicycle delivery for a year, and have raced (and won) on road and off. Normally inexperienced riders go slow, wobble, don't hold their lane, don't understand traction (like wet = slippery), but are very easy to avoid. However put they same rider on an ebike and they are dangerous. Suddenly they have to make fast decisions, predict the movements of things around them, hold their lane, compensate for road conditions (potholes, sewer grates, painted lines, sand, slab edges, etc). They go at car speeds (in the city), but have nowhere near the skills to manage it. Seen plenty of accidents. With that said you put those same people in a EV with crazy top speed and acceleration, and I'd expect them to honor the local speed limits (or close), drive just like the rest of traffic, and not be a hazard just because their car is fast.
  - gnicholas 5y ago
    It would be interesting if ebikes came with a speed limiter that gradually increased over time. First you have to do 10 miles going at 12 MPH, then you move up to 14 MPH. Of course, no bike maker would want this to be mandatory, but they could make it the default and refer to it as "ebike training wheels" to help people understand how important it is to learn this new style of bike.
rad_gruchalski 5y ago
> I was driving home from a restaurant on Tuesday evening and fiddling with the Spotify menu when I drifted slightly onto the middle line between lanes. With a tiny little push — boomp — the car nudged me back into my lane, as though it were semi-sentient. > For someone like me, who drives fairly carefully and pays attention, it can feel more precise and controlled, and thus safer. Sounds like the author doesn't really pay that much attention. And that's why we should be investing more in teaching people how to really drive a car. And stop putting huge distracting screens in cars. > Driver-assist features might offset this somewhat. Driver-assist features aren't unique to EVs.
- mark-r 5y ago
  I have that same lane nudging feature in a 2020 Toyota Camry Hybrid. Not sure if you can get that in a non-hybrid model, never asked.
giantg2 5y ago
"more torque and power in everyone's hands is going to lead to more collisions." How about some evidence? There is usually enhanced traction control and other safety features in EVs. It's also possible being able to pull out or maneuver quickly to avoid someone/something else could also reduce it. It seems the claim can't be made either way without looking at the net effects and their contributors. "I do feel safer knowing that my car will keep me in my lane in normal driving conditions. But there's only so much software can do in the face of bad infrastructure." Same rule for guns - never rely solely on physical safety devices as they can fail. If you feel safer with this feature, then it's an indication that you need to change your behavior (pay attention). Then you simply blame infrastructure? There could be some enhancements, but I don't see mention of the proposed changes here beyond land use restrictions. "Ultimately, my fondest wish is that I lived somewhere where I didn't want or need a car at all. I hate cars. I hate driving. I really hate other people's driving, and other people's cars." Places like that do exist. If you wish this so badly, you could move. "...should be reducing the need for, and number of, cars. ... The top priority should be making land use and planning choices that encourage walkable communities, with amenities mixed in, so people can get out of cars and get onto their feet or bicycles." I sort of agree, but would depend on the process and implementation details. Some places like rural areas probably wouldn't be great candidates for this. Cities and many high density neighborhoods basically already have this to varying degrees.
waffletower 5y ago
I am on my second electric vehicle (a Tesla Model Y) which I have owned just over a year and driven about 9,000 miles in (55,000 in my Nissan Leaf) in a variety of conditions. To borrow from Freud, my id did not like hearing what David Roberts had to say. But nonetheless I also believe electric vehicles, particularly those with high acceleration, present new dangers and temptations for drivers. I "leaped" across an intersection just yesterday in Portland -- an intersection which has a light rail train stop in the center divider -- exploiting the torque of my Model Y. While I only peaked at about 5 miles above the speed limit there was not a corresponding audio cue that would be present with a traditional car accelerating comparably. A commuter began an attempt to cross from the light rail stop with his bicycle after I had left the intersection. I felt he had far fewer cues to notice my car. He noticed me and abruptly stopped before completely entering the street. Even though my speed was reasonably safe, I felt the acceleration in the conditions definitely was not. I made a note to my self to take more care there in particular, not expecting I would talk about it on HN the next day. This is just one specific example -- but the acceleration and sonic characteristics of electric cars present real hazards and drivers should adjust. While driving the Leaf and the Tesla for many years, I have noticed that pedestrians tend to notice me later than they would had I been driving a conventional car.
evo_9 5y ago
You can nerf your Tesla by changing it from standard to chill mode; the car drives smoother and has a less aggressive acceleration rate across the entire throttle range. It’s pretty nice when I’m in the mood for it. Also - you don’t have to use autopilot! I don’t, I love driving but each there own.
- ZoomerCretin 5y ago
  As someone who doesn't want to be killed or permanently injured by a Tesla driver, do I get to choose for them to always have "chill mode"?
  - chasd00 5y ago
    > As someone who doesn't want to be killed or permanently injured by a Tesla driver just stay inside in front of netflix, you'll be perfectly safe that way.
  - sliken 5y ago
    Statistics say Teslas are the least of your worries. Ever larger SUV/Truck sizes on the other hand are leading to quite a few more pedestrian deaths.
mark-r 5y ago
I've gotten used to seeing cars without tail pipes, but I think this is the first one I've seen without a grille.
tomatotomato37 5y ago
In response to the author of this article winging on whether the common plebian should only be permitted acceleration numbers approved by the state, let us compare the 0-60 times of other sporty gas cars in the price bracket of the Mach-E: Ford Mustang Mach-E (2020) - $44k - 4.2 seconds Chevrolet Camaro 2SS (2019) - $45k - 4.0 seconds Dodge Charger R/T Scat Pack (2020) - $46k - 3.9 seconds Toyota GR Supra 3.0 (2021) - $51k - 3.8 seconds Volkswagen Golf R (2022) - $44k - 3.9 seconds And stretching the price point a bit: Corvette Stingray 1LT (2022) - $62k - 2.9 seconds I think it's safe to say the unwashed masses can handle an advanced power-to-weight ratio without government regulation.
- sliken 5y ago
  Figured it's worth mentioning that none of those are in the top 10 of highest accident rates per vehicle. Agreed performance != accident prone.
smitty1e 5y ago
> it's worth remembering that the top priority — not just for climate hawks but for humanists of all sorts — should be reducing the need for, and number of, cars. Prescriptivism is worrisome.
toothpicked 5y ago
This post was flagged by the car industry?

31 points by vwoolf 5y ago

who is this guy?

This essay is consistent with my feelings. In particular, the ending paragraphs: "Ultimately, my fondest wish is that I lived somewhere where I didn't want or need a car at all. I hate cars. I hate driving. I really hate other people's driving, and other people's cars." I wish the same, but those wishes seem not to be sufficiently widely shared for them to appear in local and state elections, and so we see the world in which we sadly live. In the U.S., L.A. appears to be the only city somewhat on the way to having a real, large-scale, and functional rail transit system, and even that is occurring with aching slowness.

jnwatson 5y ago
Mixed-use developments are a thing. They are common on the East coast. Just move into one. I live in one. I still have a car, but pretty much only use it on the weekend.
jayd16 5y ago
I love LA but what? There are some plans but clearly NY and SF have better rail, to name a few.
- otterley 5y ago
  SF's is pretty bad, too. To be sure, SF's is better than LA's, but LA's is a pretty low bar. BART and CalTrain provide good coverage to the cities directly around the Bay itself, but once you get to the outer suburbs, service falls off dramatically (and none at all north of SF, in Marin and Sonoma counties). And don't get me started on the pathetic state of public transit in the city itself. Muni is disgusting, unsafe-feeling, unreliable, and slow. Even LA's metro buses are better than SF's. Chicago, OTOH, has an outstanding public transit infrastructure.
  - ricardobayes 5y ago
    I thought Caltrain was pretty good?
    - ghaff 5y ago
      The problem with commuter rails in general is that they basically support, well, commuting. Where I live (well) outside Boston, my commuter rail line is a decent option to go in for a 9-5 job or event. (Decent. At least for now they've cut back some trains and eliminated the expresses so it's over 90 minutes door to door.) But it's pretty much useless for going in for an evening event. I'd basically have to hang around for an 11:30 train and get home after 1.
    - kemiller 5y ago
      Caltrain itself is fine, though not the fastest. But the connections at the suburban end are terrible making it not as useful as it might be.
woah 5y ago
My pet theory is that driving is a viral system and this is why it has triumphed. - Cars are a lowest common denominator for transportation. They do not require much infrastructure at first, and are a very easy way to get around when not many other people are driving. - Once enough people are driving, the downsides start to become apparent. But roads can be upgraded incrementally and drivers become a powerful interest groups since people have invested their livelihood into it by moving somewhere you need to drive to. - So it's a ratchet mechanism where people get locked into a transportation choice, and then force it to be expanded and catered to. Public transit does not have this dynamic. While cheaper in the long run, train lines are very expensive to build at first.
- lbriner 5y ago
  > While cheaper in the long run, train lines are very expensive to build at first. As much as I would like that to be true, I don't think it is. The safety-critical nature of railways, more so even than a coach/bus which might travel almost as fast as a slower train, means there are massive costs for maintaining railways, based partly on use but not always. I asked my MP (representative) the other day about why it was so expensive to travel on trains when there should be a massive economy of scale but she didn't understand the question. A return ticket for an approx 150km journey might be around £100 in the UK, whereas the gasoline cost would be maybe £40 + some small percentage of my yearly insurance and maintenance costs.
  - petschge 5y ago
    True cost of driving a car is typically more than twice the fuel price. So the train ticket is not that bad value. The car is just hiding a lot of the cost away in the form of registration, insurance, depreciation, repairs and so on that you don't associate with a single trip. That makes the car trip seem cheaper than it is.
    - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
      The train to commute from an outlying city into Boston is ~$400/mo. On a pure cost basis that's just about equivalent to a compact car assuming you have to pay for unsubsidized parking in Boston or thereabouts and with the car option you also get a car that you can use wherever and whenever you want.
chasd00 5y ago
"I hate cars. I hate driving. I really hate other people's driving, and other people's cars." heh why would someone who hates cars with the passion of a thousand suns review one? I enjoy driving, I don't enjoy traffic but i do like road trips. I live in Dallas and regularly do weekend trips all over Texas, SE Oklahoma, and Arkansas. It's relaxing to me.
- plorkyeran 5y ago
  Those of us that hate cars still sometimes need them too, and a review from someone who also hates cars is more relevant than one from someone who lvoes them.
  - mkr-hn 5y ago
    Not enough people appreciate the value of a reviewer with matching goals and needs.
JackFr 5y ago
> In the U.S., L.A. appears to be the only city somewhat on the way to having a real, large-scale, and functional rail transit system, and even that is occurring with aching slowness. Huh? I've lived in NY for 25 years and have never owned a car.
- ghaff 5y ago
  The thing with NY is that it not only has an extensive public transit system but there's no cultural expectation for you to own a car. And even if you owned one, getting out of the city is a bit of a pain so I'm guessing people don't do it on weekends, much less weeknights, as much as they do other places. Whereas somewhere like Boston, a lot of your friends probably live in the suburbs and do weekend activities in the mountains or wherever. You can get off without one--I'm sure people do--but, especially as you get older, it affects your activities to at least some degree.
YATA0 5y ago
>In the U.S., L.A. appears to be the only city somewhat on the way to having a real, large-scale, and functional rail transit system, and even that is occurring with aching slowness. You misspelled N.Y. L.A. barely has a train system in comparison. L.A.'s train system is hot garbage and goes practically nowhere. L.A. is one of the most car dependent cities in the US.

oblio 5y ago

It's worse than he says. Not only do EV have stunning acceleration which grandpa will most likely not be able to control, they're extremely heavy, especially at the bottom end. From what I've read a VW Golf weighs between 1300 - 1600kg. A VW ID.3, practically the same car but electric, weighs between 1800 - 1900kg. That's a small car weighing as much as a bigger, older ICE SUV. An almost 40% weight increase over the equivalent ICE. Battery weight will really need to go down. Plus we're going to have to really upgrade road infrastructure to make it safer.

speedgoose 5y ago
A BMW i3 is lighter than a VW Golf. A Dacia spring is even lighter, and extremely slow.
- JaimeThompson 5y ago
  Dacia? Good news!
- tonyedgecombe 5y ago
  The i3 is built out of carbon fibre, that was never going to be viable for a mainstream car like the Golf. The Dacia Spring is comparable to the VW Up which is two tiers down from the Golf.
saiya-jin 5y ago
They don't need to have so many HP, I can imagine battery would last much longer in city environment / slow traffic if cars accelerated like their ICE counterparts, with extra safety as a nice bonus. But marketing sells and people act on emotions. So people who got into electric cars suddenly drive harder, creating more pollution ie from tyres and brake discs (that added weight makes this also much worse). It ain't fun for lungs and overall health to breath in metallic or burned rubber nanoparticles. It looks like we will change visible pollution in the cities for less visible, but at least as deadly one.
- mark-r 5y ago

elzbardico 5y ago

Not all EVs are going to be Teslas or Mustangs or Porsches. Those are very expensive vehicles and attract the brunt of the media coverage because they are exciting, but I don't think they are going to be the majority of the cars just like we don't see hellcats everywhere.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago
When the Hellcat tax brackets start getting their hands on electric jet skis and dirtbikes, the ensuing hand wringing is probably gonna start a fire.
MisterTea 5y ago
Ill say this, they need to release some exciting models otherwise the bros and other masculine types will walk away from electric cars thinking they are for tree hugging hippies, liberals, progressives, environmentalists, yuppies, etc.
- abakker 5y ago
  A lot of judgement in this comment over people's preferences. If some people don't enjoy the performance characteristics, looks, or limited utility of a prius, this does not make them unreasonable. EV trucks, sportscars, and SUVs really can't come soon enough because those solve different problems for different people. Not everyone uses their car to commute to an office.
- elzbardico 5y ago
  In that case I would say that yes, probably it worked for me. I see no reason to apologize for being what you call a masculine type.
tomatotomato37 5y ago
Yeah, I was about to say the road to the Mach-E is littered with failed electric ecoboxes with abysmal power-to-weight ratios and HP figures more suited to mopeds. Just because your first experience with a electric vehicle is a sports marque doesn't mean all electrics are ultimately going to end up like that

marshallward 5y ago

TIL that a 2009 car is "extremely old".

marssaxman 5y ago
That cracked me up too. How young is this author? I just sold my 1992 Range Rover, after owning it for a decade. I'm hoping not to buy another car for a while, but if I had to, 2009 is at the newer end of anything I'd be looking at.
- mikestew 5y ago
  I just sold my 1992 Range Rover, after owning it for a decade. I don't know that your example makes the point. That vehicle if so old, most states will issue special historical/classic/antique plates is you ask. I'll agree that 2009 isn't all that old, but cars can get pretty ratty after 13 years, especially if one is "not a car guy". Besides, as Indiana Jones said, it's not the years, it's the mileage.
  - marssaxman 5y ago
    I don't know that I had much of a point beyond amusement at the degree to which people's perspectives vary. I suppose I am as much of an outlier as this article's author is, just in the opposite direction. That old Rover made it past 200k miles; its interior got pretty worn, but it still ran as reliably as any other vehicle I've had. I'd be driving it still, if some jackass hadn't hacked the catalytic converters out of it one night.

avalys 5y ago

“I hate cars. I hate driving. I really hate other people's driving, and other people's cars. EVs are such an enormous leap forward in environmental terms that it feels somewhat perverse to question them, but nonetheless, despite all the hype, despite all the fun, it's worth remembering that the top priority — not just for climate hawks but for humanists of all sorts — should be reducing the need for, and number of, cars.” I love cars and I love driving. How about you live your life and I’ll live mine, okay?

ed312 5y ago
You're dangerously close to wrongthink. You must express hatred for cars, love living in high-density cities, and disdain for anyone who dares to want the option to live differently. (/s, hopefully obvious) I too love cars and driving. I hate commuting via car, so I set up my life to not do that. I also dislike people pushing the blame of bad driving on _cars_ and _car manufacturers_. People are _chosing_ to interact with infotainment, use their phone, and generally not pay attention. I don't think we need more regulation, but to treat distracted driving the same way we treat drunk driving (which isn't really good enough, but a start).
kfarr 5y ago
Driving has negative externalities so it’s not that simple
- avalys 5y ago
  everything has negative externalities.

maxdo 5y ago

I don't agree. Looks like a Ford promo. The very basic of physics shows a direct dependency between how quickly car can accelerate to how fast it can stop. So faster car also stops better. In the very end, if the vehicle is balanced it's not a big issue. My Tesla Model Y performance that is doing 0 to 60 in 3.5 seconds stops immediately in any city environment. It has very small reaction distance. My old toyota wasn't able to do so. Thanks to wide tires and breaks that doesnt degrade as fast due to one pedal driving. One the highway the story is similar, yes the car can speed up faster, but it's up to a driver what is the final speed. My performance model is much more stable has far better and smarter control compares to almost any gasoline car. In the very end it quite often prevents many potential incidents.

ancientworldnow 5y ago
This is funny considering multiple tests minus a few outlier publications have Tesla model 3's and Y's boasting some of the worst braking results of cars in their size category. Granted, maybe they've since changed the brakes as they frequently modify models.
saiya-jin 5y ago
By far the best control of any car is the driver, not some technical gimmicks. If you need a computer to drive safely to ie stay in the lane or keep safe distance from car ahead, there is the issue on your side. I've turned all of these off in my car, so that I know 100% the time I need to be aware of my surroundings and do decisions myself. Happily will accept full driving mode in 10-20 years, but anything in between has a lot of hidden pitfalls.
sliken 5y ago
Not really. Generally a wide variety of cars will have a widely varying acceleration numbers (3x or more), but a pretty narrow (less than 1/3rd) spectrum of stopping distances. Physics it's just the friction coefficient of the tires, not car weight/tire diameter/tire width that matter. Sure real world considerations (like roads that aren't perfectly flat) do intrude a bit, but not much. Generally stopping distances (for modern vehicles) are related more to tire choice than anything else. Sure a stiff suspension helps minimize weight transfer and you lose less when a single tire hits a bump, but it's a small factor. Acceleration numbers can easily be a 3x difference, The slowest car in the USA is the Nissan Kicks has a 60-0 distance of less than 120 feet, even with crude drum brakes. A corvette with the special z51 performance package has a stopping distance of 108.4 feet. Sure if you stop 10 times from 60-0 without cool down, brake design and cooling make a big difference, but for normal road use (not racing on a track) it's not particularly relevant.

hbarka 5y ago

He had me until “It’s not clear Americans can handle this kind of power”. David Roberts would like to you to use a dull knife because you can’t handle a sharp knife. Here’s his intro bio: “I should note that I’m not a car guy. I don’t know much about them, don’t much like them, and don’t much like driving them. I never learned to drive a stick shift or change the oil. I don’t drool over muscle cars or know what “hemi” means. Truth be told, I kind of hate car culture.” Further on he has an opinion on what American drivers can handle. There’s literally thousands of Teslas on the road and he has fears of them “leaping” across intersections. How about some facts from IIHS: https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/with-more-electric-vehicles-comes-more-proof-of-safety https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/with-more-electric-vehicles...

tyingq 5y ago
>There’s literally thousands of Teslas on the road and he has fears of them “leaping” across intersections. Seems fair, given that some of them come with a "launch control mode / drag strip mode" right in the UI, expressly for the purpose of doing that.
- avalys 5y ago
  Expressly for the purpose of leaping across intersections, specifically?
  - tyingq 5y ago
    I suspect if you did some research on where that mode was used, intersections would far surpass "at my local dragstrip", yes. And I don't think that would be a surprise to Tesla.
    - giantg2 5y ago
      I suspect that the data would also show that it's rarely used at all.
      - 5y ago

eptcyka 5y ago

Whilst I empathize with the authors wishes to change cities and people to necessitate less cars, I don't want to walk with my neighbors. Much the same way I can't relate to the meatputers operating tonnes of metal powered by paleolithic compost (either by local or remote combustion), I despise those same meatputers when I encounter them on the sidewalk. But, to be less cynical about fellow human beings, a lot of my peers choose to not have a car way into their 30s. Lots of people choose to be part of car clubs, where you can share a car effectively across multiple households. I did that for a while too, but the limitations of car sharing make them too cumbersome, more on this later. I expect that there will be less privately owned cars in 10-15 years in the urban areas of the UK. However, I don't believe any of the smaller (less than 100'000 people) communities will ever be able to get out of the perils of private car ownership, as the geographical sparsity will force people to use cars. To not have a disproportionate negative impact on the lives of the people who choose not to live in big cities, instead of legislating cars out of existence, cars should be downsized, electrified and made to be more efficient - there is very little reason why most regular families should transport their own 300kg of human matter by also transporting 1500kg of metal in the process. Point being, in cities where the population density allows for all the infrastructure to lead a good quality of life, lets decrease car ownership, but let's not leave the people who live in smaller communities and rely on cars in the dust. As for car clubs, it seems the pricing model is hostile towards road-trips, yet I wouldn't ever want to rent the car for a shopping trip. I have a car mainly for the luxury to explore the country around me on my own terms. And since the car is shared, I'm disallowed from taking my dog with me.

tonyedgecombe 5y ago
>I don't want to walk with my neighbors You don't have to go along holding hands on your trip to the shop. All it needs is a smile and "good morning". >Point being, in cities where the population density allows for all the infrastructure to lead a good quality of life, lets decrease car ownership, but let's not leave the people who live in smaller communities and rely on cars in the dust. I have a feeling the people who are going to be left in the dust are the poor, as always.
- 5y ago

Kapura 5y ago

It's very funny to read the highs and lows from "not a car guy." The big secret about modern cars is that a new Camry is roughly on the quality level of luxury cars from 10-15 years ago. As you spend more, you get more, but cars are really better than they've ever been in more ways than just power. However, I don't think that cars being more fun than ever before is contrary to goals of reducing how much the average person drives. Better cars, fun, torquey EVs, and the like are not what is stopping construction of protected bike lanes and light rail. Having cars that have sucked for decades has not slowed the expansion of car-centric suburban sprawl around cities like Denver and Seattle. A personal anecdote: last year I moved to another state, and I looked for housing with a lot of my core needs within walking distance. Having secured this, I proceeded to buy the most fun, least practical car my budget would allow. It's OK to want infrastructure that doesn't cater to cars, but still enjoy driving for driving's own sake.

abakker 5y ago

I can't figure out what his point is? Is it that the Mustang a decent car with a lot of power and a weird UI? seems like a reasonable review, but this is not a review. This is a dude with a blog passing judgement on a lot of other people - a guy who admits he doesn't like cars things other people also shouldn't? Sure, walking is great, and so would better urban design be, but it doesn't have anything to do with electric cars or not. He theorizes that more fun driving means more driving...I don't know...there's a lot of fun gas cars that get driven rarely. Also, almost any car might be more fun that a 2000s honda odyssey. Not a high bar. I think the point this misses is that EVs are, in the long run, a MUCH better option than gas cars, despite any drawbacks.

jnwatson 5y ago
The reviewer is clearly someone that’s never driven a luxury car. Luxury cars have all the features he’s talking about. Luxury cars have good acceleration. Yes, EVs have better acceleration, but not dramatically better than a typical sports car.

gwbas1c 5y ago

> The other thing is, the acceleration puts an enormous amount of power in your hands. That's why it's called "Mustang."

mikestew 5y ago

I might, might go along with the pearl-clutching if I didn’t live in Redmond, WA, where you can’t swing a dead feline without hitting a Tesla. And my wife goes out of her way to point out a Tesla that is accelerating at anything but “old person going to Sunday church service” mode, just because it is so seldom witnessed. In other words, for all of Tesla’s hype about Scottish tartan mode, most of the ones we see can’t get out of their own way. Which is fine, no need to go tearing down the road just because you can, and you’ll save on tires. But this isn’t the first time rip-roarin’ vehicles have been sold to the public. Motorcycles, even slow ones, will stomp most cars from a light or 1/4 mile. And, yeah, folks plow into things with them on occasion. But it’s generally failure to negotiate a turn that causes moto accidents, not outrageous acceleration. So we already have the prior art of Teslas and motorcycles, and the world hasn’t ended. In fact, this is the first such worry I’ve heard about EVs. As I’ve said about fast motorcycles: the throttle is not binary.

mark-r 5y ago
I've noticed a lot more Teslas in the Minneapolis area too. Not quite the way you describe, I still go most days without seeing one. But now it's not unique to see multiple on a single outing.
- mikestew 5y ago
  I still go most days without seeing one I can't do that even if I don't leave the house. There's a school near our house, and there are a lot of Tesla school buses that drive by. :-) But multiples in a single outing? How about multiples at the same intersection? It is not uncommon to see three at a stoplight, all pointing different directions, and all the same color even. Even in the heyday of MSFT stock options, I don't think I'd see that many cars of a single luxury brand everywhere I go. It's cool and all, yet strangely bizarre at the same time. Like Tesla ownership is a rite of passage for Microsoft employees or something. :-) So you can imagine how strange it is to me when we travel to visit my parents in central FL, and don't see a single one the whole time.

throwaway_dcnt 5y ago

The author makes some valid points but I would like to live in a world where we can all get what we want without imposing our choices on others. With synthetic fuels and efficient combustion engines on the horizons, I applaud and am excited about the choices we will have and I am happy to do my part to counter the negatives (by using mass transit when I can, using electric cars for commutes and school runs, planting trees). In return, I would like to own and use my exciting ICE cars on race tracks, for fun trips and even grocery runs occasionally. Let's find the balance, without imposing our ideas on everyone.

tonyedgecombe 5y ago
>The author makes some valid points but I would like to live in a world where we can all get what we want without imposing our choices on others. We don't live in that world though do we. For a very long time the car has been absolutely dominant. Any thought at provision for pedestrians, cyclists or public transport has been squeezed out by the car lobby. All we are talking about is some rebalancing.

zitterbewegung 5y ago

Driver assistance to not get into an accident is more likely to save lives instead of taking them. I’m not sure why the author thinks that cars with a linear acceleration will kill more people considering driving is the most dangerous method of transportation. The bigger problem of driver assistance making people careless is when it’s advertised to do more than it should be doing . The biggest problem right now about driver assistance is how certain companies market it as better than it really is.

gnicholas 5y ago

Relatedly, a friend of mine has said he's seen a huge uptick in injured senior/adults riding ebikes on the (paved) bike trail near his home. Ebikes allow riders who are not practiced to ride at ~20 MPH for extended periods of time. These people may not have the reaction time needed to ride safely at this speed. Previously, only people in very good shape could ride this fast for more than a short burst, and this acted as a filter (because getting in good shape typically involved riding a lot). It's not the same issue as with cars, since fast acceleration isn't new, and every driver has driven at high speed (even if not quickly accelerating). But it is an interesting trend resulting from high-powered electric motors.

tonyedgecombe 5y ago
The same thing has happened in the Netherlands. I'm not sure it is down to the speed (they are restricted to 25kmh/16mph there) but rather that older people are cycling more often and further than they otherwise would. My mileage has tripled since I got an eBike so an accident is now roughly three times as likely.
sliken 5y ago
I've an experienced bicyclist, commuted most days of my adult life, did bicycle delivery for a year, and have raced (and won) on road and off. Normally inexperienced riders go slow, wobble, don't hold their lane, don't understand traction (like wet = slippery), but are very easy to avoid. However put they same rider on an ebike and they are dangerous. Suddenly they have to make fast decisions, predict the movements of things around them, hold their lane, compensate for road conditions (potholes, sewer grates, painted lines, sand, slab edges, etc). They go at car speeds (in the city), but have nowhere near the skills to manage it. Seen plenty of accidents. With that said you put those same people in a EV with crazy top speed and acceleration, and I'd expect them to honor the local speed limits (or close), drive just like the rest of traffic, and not be a hazard just because their car is fast.
- gnicholas 5y ago
  It would be interesting if ebikes came with a speed limiter that gradually increased over time. First you have to do 10 miles going at 12 MPH, then you move up to 14 MPH. Of course, no bike maker would want this to be mandatory, but they could make it the default and refer to it as "ebike training wheels" to help people understand how important it is to learn this new style of bike.

rad_gruchalski 5y ago

> I was driving home from a restaurant on Tuesday evening and fiddling with the Spotify menu when I drifted slightly onto the middle line between lanes. With a tiny little push — boomp — the car nudged me back into my lane, as though it were semi-sentient. > For someone like me, who drives fairly carefully and pays attention, it can feel more precise and controlled, and thus safer. Sounds like the author doesn't really pay that much attention. And that's why we should be investing more in teaching people how to really drive a car. And stop putting huge distracting screens in cars. > Driver-assist features might offset this somewhat. Driver-assist features aren't unique to EVs.

mark-r 5y ago
I have that same lane nudging feature in a 2020 Toyota Camry Hybrid. Not sure if you can get that in a non-hybrid model, never asked.

giantg2 5y ago

"more torque and power in everyone's hands is going to lead to more collisions." How about some evidence? There is usually enhanced traction control and other safety features in EVs. It's also possible being able to pull out or maneuver quickly to avoid someone/something else could also reduce it. It seems the claim can't be made either way without looking at the net effects and their contributors. "I do feel safer knowing that my car will keep me in my lane in normal driving conditions. But there's only so much software can do in the face of bad infrastructure." Same rule for guns - never rely solely on physical safety devices as they can fail. If you feel safer with this feature, then it's an indication that you need to change your behavior (pay attention). Then you simply blame infrastructure? There could be some enhancements, but I don't see mention of the proposed changes here beyond land use restrictions. "Ultimately, my fondest wish is that I lived somewhere where I didn't want or need a car at all. I hate cars. I hate driving. I really hate other people's driving, and other people's cars." Places like that do exist. If you wish this so badly, you could move. "...should be reducing the need for, and number of, cars. ... The top priority should be making land use and planning choices that encourage walkable communities, with amenities mixed in, so people can get out of cars and get onto their feet or bicycles." I sort of agree, but would depend on the process and implementation details. Some places like rural areas probably wouldn't be great candidates for this. Cities and many high density neighborhoods basically already have this to varying degrees.

waffletower 5y ago

I am on my second electric vehicle (a Tesla Model Y) which I have owned just over a year and driven about 9,000 miles in (55,000 in my Nissan Leaf) in a variety of conditions. To borrow from Freud, my id did not like hearing what David Roberts had to say. But nonetheless I also believe electric vehicles, particularly those with high acceleration, present new dangers and temptations for drivers. I "leaped" across an intersection just yesterday in Portland -- an intersection which has a light rail train stop in the center divider -- exploiting the torque of my Model Y. While I only peaked at about 5 miles above the speed limit there was not a corresponding audio cue that would be present with a traditional car accelerating comparably. A commuter began an attempt to cross from the light rail stop with his bicycle after I had left the intersection. I felt he had far fewer cues to notice my car. He noticed me and abruptly stopped before completely entering the street. Even though my speed was reasonably safe, I felt the acceleration in the conditions definitely was not. I made a note to my self to take more care there in particular, not expecting I would talk about it on HN the next day. This is just one specific example -- but the acceleration and sonic characteristics of electric cars present real hazards and drivers should adjust. While driving the Leaf and the Tesla for many years, I have noticed that pedestrians tend to notice me later than they would had I been driving a conventional car.

evo_9 5y ago

You can nerf your Tesla by changing it from standard to chill mode; the car drives smoother and has a less aggressive acceleration rate across the entire throttle range. It’s pretty nice when I’m in the mood for it. Also - you don’t have to use autopilot! I don’t, I love driving but each there own.

ZoomerCretin 5y ago
As someone who doesn't want to be killed or permanently injured by a Tesla driver, do I get to choose for them to always have "chill mode"?
- chasd00 5y ago
  > As someone who doesn't want to be killed or permanently injured by a Tesla driver just stay inside in front of netflix, you'll be perfectly safe that way.
- sliken 5y ago
  Statistics say Teslas are the least of your worries. Ever larger SUV/Truck sizes on the other hand are leading to quite a few more pedestrian deaths.

mark-r 5y ago

I've gotten used to seeing cars without tail pipes, but I think this is the first one I've seen without a grille.

tomatotomato37 5y ago

In response to the author of this article winging on whether the common plebian should only be permitted acceleration numbers approved by the state, let us compare the 0-60 times of other sporty gas cars in the price bracket of the Mach-E: Ford Mustang Mach-E (2020) - $44k - 4.2 seconds Chevrolet Camaro 2SS (2019) - $45k - 4.0 seconds Dodge Charger R/T Scat Pack (2020) - $46k - 3.9 seconds Toyota GR Supra 3.0 (2021) - $51k - 3.8 seconds Volkswagen Golf R (2022) - $44k - 3.9 seconds And stretching the price point a bit: Corvette Stingray 1LT (2022) - $62k - 2.9 seconds I think it's safe to say the unwashed masses can handle an advanced power-to-weight ratio without government regulation.

sliken 5y ago
Figured it's worth mentioning that none of those are in the top 10 of highest accident rates per vehicle. Agreed performance != accident prone.

smitty1e 5y ago

> it's worth remembering that the top priority — not just for climate hawks but for humanists of all sorts — should be reducing the need for, and number of, cars. Prescriptivism is worrisome.

toothpicked 5y ago

This post was flagged by the car industry?