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Well the US isn't a party to the ICC so it can't be sued by it over war crimes in the first place. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome_Statute https://en.wikipe

by BbzzbB 5y ago

Well the US isn't a party to the ICC so it can't be sued by it over war crimes in the first place. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome_Statute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome_Statute

tux3 5y ago
"Okay. But That's Worse. You, You Do Get How That's Worse, Right?" — NBC, The Good Place
harryf 5y ago
It doesn’t need a treaty for something to be clearly wrong… and like wrong at any level. I mean the poster at the top of this thread immediately tries to make some justification… > This is the kind of stuff that probably makes some people’s job down the pipe easier and at the same time undermines the Western civilization. No! It’s just wrong! We should never do this to other human beings. Period. But you want a GOOD reason why not ? Because the people you trained to torture abroad one day return home and get jobs like security outside the nightclub your teenage kids are going to. You’re literally training psychopaths which later get unleashed on the public at home. Also we know torture doesn’t work for information gathering. It’s only useful as a tool of oppression. Which is why we’re actually using it. But seriously. I can’t believe I need to make the case against torture. It’s just wrong.
- pstuart 5y ago
  The show "24" was an advertisement for torture. I got sucked in at first because it was a bit of a twist and exciting, but soon stopped out of disgust when I realized what was going on.
  - harryf 5y ago
    Exactly. And it came out Nov 6th 2001... not even a month after 9/11. Probably did a lot to shape an angry publics willingness to use torture as a tool in retribution. The writers of 24 (and later Homeland) talk about it here https://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/30/magazine/the-creators-of-homeland-exorcise-the-ghost-of-24.html https://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/30/magazine/the-creators-of-...
    - lesuorac 5y ago
      Do you really think they finished all of the casting calls, set design, filming, and editing from Sept 12 2001 to Nov 6th 2001? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24_(TV_series)#Conception https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24_(TV_series)#Conception
      - harryf 5y ago
        No and I’m not saying it’s a conspiracy. They were opportunistic. I remember back then hearing an interview with the writers who were describing writing each episode of 24 on a weekly basis between episodes. And the article I linked to describes how they tried to use Homeland to reflect more seriously on the ideas around torture that first appeared in 24. Ultimately they created a show that fed into the publics desire for revenge, post 9/11, and made a big success out of it. What it leads to is the point I already made - the goal torture is oppression; to create fear and thereby obedience, not gathering information.
monocasa 5y ago
The Rome Statute is tied to territory, so any US citizens that find themselves in a country that has signed the Rome Statute can find themselves facing war crimes tribunals, hence the Hague invasion act. Even with that act in place there's a swath of western countries that former US statesmen like Cheney and Kissinger won't go anymore.

by BbzzbB 5y ago

Well the US isn't a party to the ICC so it can't be sued by it over war crimes in the first place. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome_Statute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome_Statute

tux3 5y ago

"Okay. But That's Worse. You, You Do Get How That's Worse, Right?" — NBC, The Good Place

harryf 5y ago

It doesn’t need a treaty for something to be clearly wrong… and like wrong at any level. I mean the poster at the top of this thread immediately tries to make some justification… > This is the kind of stuff that probably makes some people’s job down the pipe easier and at the same time undermines the Western civilization. No! It’s just wrong! We should never do this to other human beings. Period. But you want a GOOD reason why not ? Because the people you trained to torture abroad one day return home and get jobs like security outside the nightclub your teenage kids are going to. You’re literally training psychopaths which later get unleashed on the public at home. Also we know torture doesn’t work for information gathering. It’s only useful as a tool of oppression. Which is why we’re actually using it. But seriously. I can’t believe I need to make the case against torture. It’s just wrong.

pstuart 5y ago
The show "24" was an advertisement for torture. I got sucked in at first because it was a bit of a twist and exciting, but soon stopped out of disgust when I realized what was going on.
- harryf 5y ago
  Exactly. And it came out Nov 6th 2001... not even a month after 9/11. Probably did a lot to shape an angry publics willingness to use torture as a tool in retribution. The writers of 24 (and later Homeland) talk about it here https://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/30/magazine/the-creators-of-homeland-exorcise-the-ghost-of-24.html https://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/30/magazine/the-creators-of-...
  - lesuorac 5y ago
    Do you really think they finished all of the casting calls, set design, filming, and editing from Sept 12 2001 to Nov 6th 2001? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24_(TV_series)#Conception https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24_(TV_series)#Conception
    - harryf 5y ago
      No and I’m not saying it’s a conspiracy. They were opportunistic. I remember back then hearing an interview with the writers who were describing writing each episode of 24 on a weekly basis between episodes. And the article I linked to describes how they tried to use Homeland to reflect more seriously on the ideas around torture that first appeared in 24. Ultimately they created a show that fed into the publics desire for revenge, post 9/11, and made a big success out of it. What it leads to is the point I already made - the goal torture is oppression; to create fear and thereby obedience, not gathering information.

monocasa 5y ago

The Rome Statute is tied to territory, so any US citizens that find themselves in a country that has signed the Rome Statute can find themselves facing war crimes tribunals, hence the Hague invasion act. Even with that act in place there's a swath of western countries that former US statesmen like Cheney and Kissinger won't go anymore.