5 ms·

Here is a take on the incident itself which I think is worth a look: https://twitter.com/grishchukroma/status/1503500141159985157 https://twitter.com/grishchukr

by devin 5y ago

Here is a take on the incident itself which I think is worth a look: https://twitter.com/grishchukroma/status/1503500141159985157 https://twitter.com/grishchukroma/status/1503500141159985157 In short: This woman is an editor for the Russian propaganda machine, and it's very likely this was staged/is itself more propaganda aimed at the west.

wheybags 5y ago
That honestly seems a little convoluted as a theory. Like a double-double-doublecross in some spy movie, IMO real life is usually more straightforward.
- mach1ne 5y ago
  Yep. Definitely not propaganda. Doesn't serve their purposes.
- TillE 5y ago
  Right. Most conspiracies are pretty dumb, because people are dumb. Russia's MO is basically to tell absurd lies and whine about American hypocrisy, both through official channels and unofficially online. That's it. If you were reading the comment sections of newspaper articles during the annexation of Crimea, you probably remember the flood of posts expressing bizarre pro-Russian views which were entirely inconsistent with any significant Western political alignment. This stuff is pretty easy to spot and acknowledge for what it is. Anything beyond that I would generally take as people's honest opinions.
thejackgoode 5y ago
Even if true, this still backfires. While this got the headlines everywhere, there is no significant pro-russian sentiment as a result, at least on the surface. So it's either an elites conflict getting from under the rug or an actual protest. As a Ukrainian, I am fine with both.
funwares 5y ago
This sounds like an extremely uncharitable interpretation of what (if genuine) is a very brave thing to do. For some further information: Marina Ovsyannikova has been charged with "organizing an unauthorized public event" [0]. The punishment can be a fine, community service or up to 10 days in jail. So she seems to not be charged with the new law that could land her 15 years in prison. Corroboration of the theory that it was staged? Or a sign that Russia is slowly allowing more people to speak out against the war? Or something completely different? I truly do not know what to believe these days. [0] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60749279 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60749279
pvg 5y ago
and it's very likely this was staged That's a huge leap that doesn't really follow from any of the available facts.
mmaunder 5y ago
Interesting point of view. Thanks for sharing. It does seem plausible.
ComradePhil 5y ago
OR that there are people who have personal opinions about the war who try to do what they think is right... and then there are sleazy Ukrainians politicians who are worried that the western population might see Russians as humans.
- frederikb 5y ago
  I agree with your first sentence. The "sleazy Ukrainian politician" statement however is quite an accusation, especially considering that the Ukrainian president commended her and all other brave Russians who protest and speak up. Are you speaking about any politician in particular? Source: https://www.businessinsider.in/politics/world/news/zelenskyy-thanked-a-russian-state-tv-journalist-who-stormed-a-live-news-broadcast-with-anti-war-sign/articleshow/90224575.cms https://www.businessinsider.in/politics/world/news/zelenskyy...
JonoW 5y ago
I don't follow how this could be true, as normal Russian viewers would have seen a "we started a war" narrative that is essentially blocked everywhere else. I.e. there is a lot to lose, and also, everyone in the west knows there are lots of "good" Russians. They just need to see more of these sorts of messages, so if the Kremlin arranged this - win!
consumer451 5y ago
> and it's very likely this was staged/is itself more propaganda aimed at the west. Could you please explain your reasoning here? Why do you think this is the case? What does Russia have to gain?
trhway 5y ago
The tweet author unfortunately puts carriage in front of the horse - not by any evil will, it is just a natural mistake for non-Russians observing the situation from outside. "In video she talks about "brother nations" of Russia and Ukraine. This is core narrative of Russian propaganda that is used as explanation of occupation of Ukraine: "We are brothers and we should live in one country"." It isn't just a core narrative of the propaganda. It is a deep seated in Russian psyche myth hijacked by the propaganda. Thus pretty much any Russian, even the best of the best like this woman would usually display it. Mixed with another core myth of "Great Russia" it becomes the "Big brother" surrounded by "Little brothers". Like Ukrainians in recent TV discussion about whether to allow "good Russians" to come to Ukraine described it as "an infection what every, even good intentioned, Russian carry". "she says that only Putin is responsible for war. It's false statement: most of Russian society support Putin, occupation and war in Ukraine." That is just a tall order right now for any Russian there. Just voicing that way against Putin is the act of unmeasurable courage. It is already big pain to recognize it internally yourself, let alone to tell all those mostly good, at least in everyday life, people, your friends and colleagues, that they are perpetrators and supporters of genocidal war - while true, that would be shot nowhere, just costing a moral support by those people which is really important when you're going against Putin.

by devin 5y ago

wheybags 5y ago

That honestly seems a little convoluted as a theory. Like a double-double-doublecross in some spy movie, IMO real life is usually more straightforward.

mach1ne 5y ago
Yep. Definitely not propaganda. Doesn't serve their purposes.
TillE 5y ago
Right. Most conspiracies are pretty dumb, because people are dumb. Russia's MO is basically to tell absurd lies and whine about American hypocrisy, both through official channels and unofficially online. That's it. If you were reading the comment sections of newspaper articles during the annexation of Crimea, you probably remember the flood of posts expressing bizarre pro-Russian views which were entirely inconsistent with any significant Western political alignment. This stuff is pretty easy to spot and acknowledge for what it is. Anything beyond that I would generally take as people's honest opinions.

thejackgoode 5y ago

Even if true, this still backfires. While this got the headlines everywhere, there is no significant pro-russian sentiment as a result, at least on the surface. So it's either an elites conflict getting from under the rug or an actual protest. As a Ukrainian, I am fine with both.

funwares 5y ago

This sounds like an extremely uncharitable interpretation of what (if genuine) is a very brave thing to do. For some further information: Marina Ovsyannikova has been charged with "organizing an unauthorized public event" [0]. The punishment can be a fine, community service or up to 10 days in jail. So she seems to not be charged with the new law that could land her 15 years in prison. Corroboration of the theory that it was staged? Or a sign that Russia is slowly allowing more people to speak out against the war? Or something completely different? I truly do not know what to believe these days. [0] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60749279 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60749279

pvg 5y ago

and it's very likely this was staged That's a huge leap that doesn't really follow from any of the available facts.

mmaunder 5y ago

Interesting point of view. Thanks for sharing. It does seem plausible.

ComradePhil 5y ago

OR that there are people who have personal opinions about the war who try to do what they think is right... and then there are sleazy Ukrainians politicians who are worried that the western population might see Russians as humans.

frederikb 5y ago
I agree with your first sentence. The "sleazy Ukrainian politician" statement however is quite an accusation, especially considering that the Ukrainian president commended her and all other brave Russians who protest and speak up. Are you speaking about any politician in particular? Source: https://www.businessinsider.in/politics/world/news/zelenskyy-thanked-a-russian-state-tv-journalist-who-stormed-a-live-news-broadcast-with-anti-war-sign/articleshow/90224575.cms https://www.businessinsider.in/politics/world/news/zelenskyy...

JonoW 5y ago

I don't follow how this could be true, as normal Russian viewers would have seen a "we started a war" narrative that is essentially blocked everywhere else. I.e. there is a lot to lose, and also, everyone in the west knows there are lots of "good" Russians. They just need to see more of these sorts of messages, so if the Kremlin arranged this - win!

consumer451 5y ago

> and it's very likely this was staged/is itself more propaganda aimed at the west. Could you please explain your reasoning here? Why do you think this is the case? What does Russia have to gain?

trhway 5y ago

The tweet author unfortunately puts carriage in front of the horse - not by any evil will, it is just a natural mistake for non-Russians observing the situation from outside. "In video she talks about "brother nations" of Russia and Ukraine. This is core narrative of Russian propaganda that is used as explanation of occupation of Ukraine: "We are brothers and we should live in one country"." It isn't just a core narrative of the propaganda. It is a deep seated in Russian psyche myth hijacked by the propaganda. Thus pretty much any Russian, even the best of the best like this woman would usually display it. Mixed with another core myth of "Great Russia" it becomes the "Big brother" surrounded by "Little brothers". Like Ukrainians in recent TV discussion about whether to allow "good Russians" to come to Ukraine described it as "an infection what every, even good intentioned, Russian carry". "she says that only Putin is responsible for war. It's false statement: most of Russian society support Putin, occupation and war in Ukraine." That is just a tall order right now for any Russian there. Just voicing that way against Putin is the act of unmeasurable courage. It is already big pain to recognize it internally yourself, let alone to tell all those mostly good, at least in everyday life, people, your friends and colleagues, that they are perpetrators and supporters of genocidal war - while true, that would be shot nowhere, just costing a moral support by those people which is really important when you're going against Putin.