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>>I couldn't care less what is the name of the country I am residing and whether it's gonna change if it won't really affect my day to day life. Except that yo

>>I couldn't care less what is the name of the country I am residing and whether it's gonna change if it won't really affect my day to day life. Except that you are absolutely wrong about this. If Ukraine surrendered tomorrow and got annexed to be part of Russia, lives of everyone within that country would change dramatically. Take this from someone whose country wasn't even on the map of the world for almost 100 years(thanks to Russia, among others), and in many places speaking our language was an actual crime, as was teaching our culture and history. Yes, the country and its people still survived even though the borders were wiped off the map, but if you are assuming that nothing would change in your life other than the group of politicians in power, you are absolutely and gravely wrong. >>I mean if richer more advanced country is going to conquer my country I am certainly not going to fight it I literally have no words. What if the richer and more advanced country then makes you a second class citizen with fewer rights than you had before? What if they say you can continue to live there, but only in a special camp set up for you? What if speaking your own language becomes illegal? Ask Palestinians how the "richer and more advanced" Israel is treating them exactly. Why would you not fight an invader? Do you have zero sense of self preservation?

s1artibartfast 5y ago
>If Ukraine surrendered tomorrow and got annexed to be part of Russia What if Ukraine made a peace deal tomorrow and Russia withdrew from the country with the exception of Crimea and Donbas? This is an option. Everyone dying in this conflict is fighting over the NATO alignment of Ukraine, not who governs their homes.
- gambiting 5y ago
  >>This is an option. Is it? In what kind of world? I don't believe for one second that this is what would happen. Russia won't pull out until they at the very least receive a written promises from Ukraine that it won't join NATO or EU, and I don't see why Ukraine should promise either thing, or that even promising that would stop Russia from taking the entire country anyway.
  - s1artibartfast 5y ago
    >Is it? In what kind of world? I don't believe for one second that this is what would happen. Russia won't pull out until they at the very least receive a written promises from Ukraine that it won't join NATO or EU A written promise isn't an insurmountable barrier. > I don't see why Ukraine should promise either thing To save countless Ukrainian lives >stop Russia from taking the entire country anyway. Russia clearly would have a hard time taking and holding the country. The war is destroying their economy. They would be happy to get their objective and leave.
    - gambiting 5y ago
      >>To save countless Ukrainian lives That sounds like something my mother says - Ukrainians should just surrender to save themselves. Forgetting that if we did that as a country at several points in our history in recent times neither one of us would be even alive. Resistance to invasion is the only way. >>The war is destroying their economy. Oh no poor Russians and their economy. You say it like they were forced to invade. As someone else said - not invading Ukraine would have cost them exactly zero rubles.
      - s1artibartfast 5y ago
        >That sounds like something my mother says - Ukrainians should just surrender to save themselves. Forgetting that if we did that as a country at several points in our history in recent times neither one of us would be even alive. Resistance to invasion is the only way. It is a simple matter of what Ukraine wants more, saving lives or being uncompromising. >Oh no poor Russians and their economy. You say it like they were forced to invade. You missed or simply ignored the point. The point was not poor Russia, but why they would agree to a peace deal and why they can't conquer and hold Ukraine.
        gambiting 5y ago
        >>It is a simple matter of what Ukraine wants more, saving lives or being uncompromising. Yes, I think people should be "uncompromising" about saving their homeland from invasion. If you excuse my comparison - your advice sounds like telling a person being raped to just stop struggling, it will end sooner that way. Ukraine is currently being invaded by Russia - they should fight with all their might to destroy the invader. I personally find the suggestion that "surrendering saves lives" offensive - if my country surrendered in WW2 many more people would have died, not less. It's magical wishful thinking that belongs in fantasy books not in the real world. >>>>I mean if richer more advanced country is going to conquer my country I am certainly not going to fight it I will re-iterate that this statement can be only said by someone with absolutely no sense of self-preservation.
Markoff 5y ago
I don't think their lives would change dramatically, instead corrupted president from Pandora papers that would have new corrupted president from Pandora papers people make it like Zelensky is saint and completely ignore less than half year ago he was corrupted POS and I really fail to see what's in Ukraine better than in Russia, once again corrupted president destroying opposition and censoring news no matter on efficient side of border you are let's not forget Ukraine was part of USSR just 30 years ago, so it would just returned where it was but honestly it's unrealistic and I really doubt even Putin wants that, what he wants is reassurance they won't join NATO (see Cuban missile crisis to see parallel) which is making headlines right now as I write and he probably wants independence for those Eastern republics same as for Crimea to stop Nazis slaughtering there separatists I'm not denying Palestine has very big issues, but it's apples and oranges, here Russia support autonomy of those Eastern provinces while EU countries do opposite trying to keep them within Ukraine with their support for one side, honestly this should be really business between Ukrainians and Russians and no other nation should meddle there, nothing good can come out of third party meddling
- gambiting 5y ago
  >>honestly this should be really business between Ukrainians and Russians and no other nation should meddle there, nothing good can come out of third party meddling I guess you would have thought that Hitler should have been allowed to just take Poland, nothing good came out of third party meddling there after all. >>people make it like Zelensky is saint and completely ignore less than half year ago he was corrupted POS and I really fail to see what's in Ukraine better than in Russia, once again corrupted president destroying opposition and censoring news no matter on efficient side of border you are Literally none of that is relevant here, Russia invaded Ukraine and they need to be kicked out. Whether you like zelensky or not is literally irrelevant to the issue at hand.

s1artibartfast 5y ago

>If Ukraine surrendered tomorrow and got annexed to be part of Russia What if Ukraine made a peace deal tomorrow and Russia withdrew from the country with the exception of Crimea and Donbas? This is an option. Everyone dying in this conflict is fighting over the NATO alignment of Ukraine, not who governs their homes.

gambiting 5y ago
>>This is an option. Is it? In what kind of world? I don't believe for one second that this is what would happen. Russia won't pull out until they at the very least receive a written promises from Ukraine that it won't join NATO or EU, and I don't see why Ukraine should promise either thing, or that even promising that would stop Russia from taking the entire country anyway.
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  >Is it? In what kind of world? I don't believe for one second that this is what would happen. Russia won't pull out until they at the very least receive a written promises from Ukraine that it won't join NATO or EU A written promise isn't an insurmountable barrier. > I don't see why Ukraine should promise either thing To save countless Ukrainian lives >stop Russia from taking the entire country anyway. Russia clearly would have a hard time taking and holding the country. The war is destroying their economy. They would be happy to get their objective and leave.
  - gambiting 5y ago
    >>To save countless Ukrainian lives That sounds like something my mother says - Ukrainians should just surrender to save themselves. Forgetting that if we did that as a country at several points in our history in recent times neither one of us would be even alive. Resistance to invasion is the only way. >>The war is destroying their economy. Oh no poor Russians and their economy. You say it like they were forced to invade. As someone else said - not invading Ukraine would have cost them exactly zero rubles.
    - s1artibartfast 5y ago
      >That sounds like something my mother says - Ukrainians should just surrender to save themselves. Forgetting that if we did that as a country at several points in our history in recent times neither one of us would be even alive. Resistance to invasion is the only way. It is a simple matter of what Ukraine wants more, saving lives or being uncompromising. >Oh no poor Russians and their economy. You say it like they were forced to invade. You missed or simply ignored the point. The point was not poor Russia, but why they would agree to a peace deal and why they can't conquer and hold Ukraine.
      - gambiting 5y ago
        >>It is a simple matter of what Ukraine wants more, saving lives or being uncompromising. Yes, I think people should be "uncompromising" about saving their homeland from invasion. If you excuse my comparison - your advice sounds like telling a person being raped to just stop struggling, it will end sooner that way. Ukraine is currently being invaded by Russia - they should fight with all their might to destroy the invader. I personally find the suggestion that "surrendering saves lives" offensive - if my country surrendered in WW2 many more people would have died, not less. It's magical wishful thinking that belongs in fantasy books not in the real world. >>>>I mean if richer more advanced country is going to conquer my country I am certainly not going to fight it I will re-iterate that this statement can be only said by someone with absolutely no sense of self-preservation.

Markoff 5y ago

I don't think their lives would change dramatically, instead corrupted president from Pandora papers that would have new corrupted president from Pandora papers people make it like Zelensky is saint and completely ignore less than half year ago he was corrupted POS and I really fail to see what's in Ukraine better than in Russia, once again corrupted president destroying opposition and censoring news no matter on efficient side of border you are let's not forget Ukraine was part of USSR just 30 years ago, so it would just returned where it was but honestly it's unrealistic and I really doubt even Putin wants that, what he wants is reassurance they won't join NATO (see Cuban missile crisis to see parallel) which is making headlines right now as I write and he probably wants independence for those Eastern republics same as for Crimea to stop Nazis slaughtering there separatists I'm not denying Palestine has very big issues, but it's apples and oranges, here Russia support autonomy of those Eastern provinces while EU countries do opposite trying to keep them within Ukraine with their support for one side, honestly this should be really business between Ukrainians and Russians and no other nation should meddle there, nothing good can come out of third party meddling

gambiting 5y ago
>>honestly this should be really business between Ukrainians and Russians and no other nation should meddle there, nothing good can come out of third party meddling I guess you would have thought that Hitler should have been allowed to just take Poland, nothing good came out of third party meddling there after all. >>people make it like Zelensky is saint and completely ignore less than half year ago he was corrupted POS and I really fail to see what's in Ukraine better than in Russia, once again corrupted president destroying opposition and censoring news no matter on efficient side of border you are Literally none of that is relevant here, Russia invaded Ukraine and they need to be kicked out. Whether you like zelensky or not is literally irrelevant to the issue at hand.