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Another predator preying on newbies. Don't waste your money on this. Doing $ vimtutor and then going through the user manual is all it takes to learn Vim. Easy

Another predator preying on newbies. Don't waste your money on this. Doing $ vimtutor and then going through the user manual is all it takes to learn Vim. Easy, free, and built-in.

yash1th 5y ago
it’s really harsh to say that. I’m sure many people appreciate the material and effort
- ketanmaheshwari 5y ago
  Not to take away anything from this but I think there are plenty more valuable resources available for free on the web on this topic.
  - sundarurfriend 5y ago
    The author (OP of this post) has a page listing some of those free resources available on the web: https://learnbyexample.github.io/curated_resources/vim.html https://learnbyexample.github.io/curated_resources/vim.html
- johncoltrane 5y ago
  People appreciate lots of pointless things, and people like to profit from it. Such is life.
ketanmaheshwari 5y ago
vim user manual in pdf form is surprisingly difficult to find. Here is one I found: https://begriffs.com/pdf/vim-user-manual.pdf https://begriffs.com/pdf/vim-user-manual.pdf
- johncoltrane 5y ago
  It's already in Vim, where it matters, so there is no need for such a thing. First, because it may not be up to date (current version is 8.2, with 9.0 around the corner), second, because the links to the reference manual are dead.
  - themadturk 5y ago
    Not everyone wants to sit in front of the computer and read the help file. That is, sometimes it's easier to sit down with a printout, or on a tablet, and read it like a book (or as a document with working links, which this one is). Yes, it is certainly valuable to have it right there in the editor, easy to consult at a moment's notice. But saying there's "no need" for it sounds self-absorbed; you don't need it, so neither does anyone else.
    - johncoltrane 5y ago
      > Not everyone wants to sit in front of the computer and read the help file. That is, sometimes it's easier to sit down with a printout, or on a tablet, and read it like a book (or as a document with working links, which this one is). It's a hands-on tutorial. You don't "read it like a book", you follow it and do the exercises. Besides, only the internal links work, here, so there is no way to dig deeper from the comfort of your couch. > Yes, it is certainly valuable to have it right there in the editor, easy to consult at a moment's notice. No. The user manual is not something you "consult at a moment's notice". It's something you focus on, deliberately, during 1-2 hours sittings.
      - themadturk 5y ago
        > It's a hands-on tutorial. You don't "read it like a book", you follow it and do the exercises. Well, I have been known to take helpfiles like this and "read them like a book," or at least like a reference manual to a particular group of functions. > Besides, only the internal links work, here, so there is no way to dig deeper from the comfort of your couch. Internal links are exactly what I'm looking for, so I can jump from one part of the file to another, but external links in the PDF file work just fine. > No. The user manual is not something you "consult at a moment's notice". It's something you focus on, deliberately, during 1-2 hours sittings. Yes. I have consulted user manuals at a moment's notice. There doesn't seem to be much intersection between my life experience and yours.
tombert 5y ago
I don't think that this is predatory; even if they're charging for this, it's useful to get different perspectives on teaching. We're all a bit different, sometimes `vimtutor` isn't going to stick. I mean, taking this logic to its extreme, should universities by completely abolished, since most of the information available in universities is also available online for free?
- johncoltrane 5y ago
  > I mean, taking this logic to its extreme, should universities by completely abolished, since most of the information available in universities is also available online for free? That would be a different logic.
  - tombert 5y ago
    How though? All this person is offering is a different tutorial for Vim, and they might eventually charge money for it. Yes, the information is available for free via Vimtutor (or a million other online tutorials), but that doesn't make a paid tutorial predatory, any more than any other paid information tutorial.
    - johncoltrane 5y ago
      It's not a different tutorial. It's a gigantic, messy, incomplete reference card. And yes, it is predatory, just like every other ebook/app/whatever based on the misconception that Vim is hard to learn.
      - tombert 5y ago
        I've been using Vim as my full time editor for a decade (well Neovim for the last five years), so believe me when I say this: Vim is hard to learn. It's not a misconception. Modal editing never really took off, so people's exposure to text editing prior to learning Vim is generally something like MSOffice, which is not modal. Maybe you're some hypergenius who picked up Vim in an afternoon, but I know several people who I recommended "just go through Vimtutor" and it didn't stick for them.
Timpy 5y ago
People write books about things, I don't think they're preying on anybody. It looks like all the material is free on the site anyways but you can pay for an ebook if you want.
- johncoltrane 5y ago
  > People write books about things, I don't think they're preying on anybody. Lots of books are written about things people are anxious about or afraid of in the sole purpose of banking on those anxieties and fears. Step 1: convince vim-curious people that a) it will turn them into elite hackers and b) that it is freaking hard to learn. Step 2: capitalize on the tension created at step 1 by providing them ways to skip b on the way to (imaginary) a.
sundarurfriend 5y ago
They mention vimtutor right on the purchase page, and in the book too. And they provide a link [1] to free Vim resources available online, on a page that the author maintains themselves. This is the opposite of what someone "preying on newbies" would do. [1] https://learnbyexample.github.io/curated_resources/vim.html https://learnbyexample.github.io/curated_resources/vim.html
antiframe 5y ago
I just "purchased" the book on Gumroad for $0. On page seven it states "This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 4.0 International License". Not sure how it's predatory. Aside: To any newbies that want to read the PDF or Epub version and it's no longer free on Gumroad, hit me up and I'll send you a copy.
- johncoltrane 5y ago
  > Not sure how it's predatory. Neither the licence of that thing nor its price tag have anything to do with it.

Another predator preying on newbies. Don't waste your money on this. Doing $ vimtutor and then going through the user manual is all it takes to learn Vim. Easy, free, and built-in.

yash1th 5y ago

it’s really harsh to say that. I’m sure many people appreciate the material and effort

ketanmaheshwari 5y ago
Not to take away anything from this but I think there are plenty more valuable resources available for free on the web on this topic.
- sundarurfriend 5y ago
  The author (OP of this post) has a page listing some of those free resources available on the web: https://learnbyexample.github.io/curated_resources/vim.html https://learnbyexample.github.io/curated_resources/vim.html
johncoltrane 5y ago
People appreciate lots of pointless things, and people like to profit from it. Such is life.

ketanmaheshwari 5y ago

vim user manual in pdf form is surprisingly difficult to find. Here is one I found: https://begriffs.com/pdf/vim-user-manual.pdf https://begriffs.com/pdf/vim-user-manual.pdf

johncoltrane 5y ago
It's already in Vim, where it matters, so there is no need for such a thing. First, because it may not be up to date (current version is 8.2, with 9.0 around the corner), second, because the links to the reference manual are dead.
- themadturk 5y ago
  Not everyone wants to sit in front of the computer and read the help file. That is, sometimes it's easier to sit down with a printout, or on a tablet, and read it like a book (or as a document with working links, which this one is). Yes, it is certainly valuable to have it right there in the editor, easy to consult at a moment's notice. But saying there's "no need" for it sounds self-absorbed; you don't need it, so neither does anyone else.
  - johncoltrane 5y ago
    > Not everyone wants to sit in front of the computer and read the help file. That is, sometimes it's easier to sit down with a printout, or on a tablet, and read it like a book (or as a document with working links, which this one is). It's a hands-on tutorial. You don't "read it like a book", you follow it and do the exercises. Besides, only the internal links work, here, so there is no way to dig deeper from the comfort of your couch. > Yes, it is certainly valuable to have it right there in the editor, easy to consult at a moment's notice. No. The user manual is not something you "consult at a moment's notice". It's something you focus on, deliberately, during 1-2 hours sittings.
    - themadturk 5y ago
      > It's a hands-on tutorial. You don't "read it like a book", you follow it and do the exercises. Well, I have been known to take helpfiles like this and "read them like a book," or at least like a reference manual to a particular group of functions. > Besides, only the internal links work, here, so there is no way to dig deeper from the comfort of your couch. Internal links are exactly what I'm looking for, so I can jump from one part of the file to another, but external links in the PDF file work just fine. > No. The user manual is not something you "consult at a moment's notice". It's something you focus on, deliberately, during 1-2 hours sittings. Yes. I have consulted user manuals at a moment's notice. There doesn't seem to be much intersection between my life experience and yours.

tombert 5y ago

I don't think that this is predatory; even if they're charging for this, it's useful to get different perspectives on teaching. We're all a bit different, sometimes `vimtutor` isn't going to stick. I mean, taking this logic to its extreme, should universities by completely abolished, since most of the information available in universities is also available online for free?

johncoltrane 5y ago
> I mean, taking this logic to its extreme, should universities by completely abolished, since most of the information available in universities is also available online for free? That would be a different logic.
- tombert 5y ago
  How though? All this person is offering is a different tutorial for Vim, and they might eventually charge money for it. Yes, the information is available for free via Vimtutor (or a million other online tutorials), but that doesn't make a paid tutorial predatory, any more than any other paid information tutorial.
  - johncoltrane 5y ago
    It's not a different tutorial. It's a gigantic, messy, incomplete reference card. And yes, it is predatory, just like every other ebook/app/whatever based on the misconception that Vim is hard to learn.
    - tombert 5y ago
      I've been using Vim as my full time editor for a decade (well Neovim for the last five years), so believe me when I say this: Vim is hard to learn. It's not a misconception. Modal editing never really took off, so people's exposure to text editing prior to learning Vim is generally something like MSOffice, which is not modal. Maybe you're some hypergenius who picked up Vim in an afternoon, but I know several people who I recommended "just go through Vimtutor" and it didn't stick for them.

Timpy 5y ago

People write books about things, I don't think they're preying on anybody. It looks like all the material is free on the site anyways but you can pay for an ebook if you want.

johncoltrane 5y ago
> People write books about things, I don't think they're preying on anybody. Lots of books are written about things people are anxious about or afraid of in the sole purpose of banking on those anxieties and fears. Step 1: convince vim-curious people that a) it will turn them into elite hackers and b) that it is freaking hard to learn. Step 2: capitalize on the tension created at step 1 by providing them ways to skip b on the way to (imaginary) a.

sundarurfriend 5y ago

They mention vimtutor right on the purchase page, and in the book too. And they provide a link [1] to free Vim resources available online, on a page that the author maintains themselves. This is the opposite of what someone "preying on newbies" would do. [1] https://learnbyexample.github.io/curated_resources/vim.html https://learnbyexample.github.io/curated_resources/vim.html

antiframe 5y ago

I just "purchased" the book on Gumroad for $0. On page seven it states "This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 4.0 International License". Not sure how it's predatory. Aside: To any newbies that want to read the PDF or Epub version and it's no longer free on Gumroad, hit me up and I'll send you a copy.

johncoltrane 5y ago
> Not sure how it's predatory. Neither the licence of that thing nor its price tag have anything to do with it.