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So what do the millions of households earning <$60k do? Are they going tens of thousands of dollars deeper in debt each year?

by lkbm 5y ago

serioussecurity 5y ago
In NYC? They're living without health insurance, 8 people in a 3 bedroom, with less than $500 in savings, and credit card debt, yes. Or they commute two hours each way from Philly. America does not treat it's people well. https://fortunly.com/statistics/american-savings-statistics/#gref https://fortunly.com/statistics/american-savings-statistics/...
- Jcowell 5y ago
  Errr. I think there’s a big disconnect here. 1) NYC is not just Manhattan. The outer boroughs are also NYC and are far cheaper. Not Nashville cheap but livable. You don’t need 8 people in 3 bedrooms. You can even live in jersey. 2) A lot of NYC has affordable housing and projects. A lot of communities making the basic minimum wage or not at all can live there. 3) 110K is a absolutely doable in NYC. It’s just not doable if you live outside your means.
- lkbm 5y ago
  > In NYC? They're living without health insurance, 8 people in a 3 bedroom, with less than $500 in savings, and credit card debt, yes. I understand that they don't have savings and have some credit card debt, but we're talking $50,000 per year. And this is over the median household income[0]. Are the people in the 25th percentile living 16 people in a 3 bedroom? The OP has updated to say their mortgage is only $2,600/mo., so even after housing that leaves ~70k over what median household makes before rent. (The OP also reports having three kids, which is almost certainly a large part of that $70k.) I suspect you don't spend a lot of time with people making $30-$70k. They exist, often have housing, and many of them even eat food. It's worth examining how they manage rather than dismissing this as an impossibility. > Or they commute two hours each way from Philly. Nope. NYC residents. Median household income of $63,998 (2019). [0] https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/newyorkcitynewyork/INC110219#INC110219 https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/newyorkcitynewy...
nine_zeros 5y ago
Bad debt is the easy option. Sometimes they work 2 jobs or live out in the exurbs and commute 4 hours a day. Sometimes they drive for uber with their child in the front seat because they can't pay for daycare. Sometimes they engage in gambling or other under the radar activities just to supplement their income. Some of them own their homes outright. Others live with 2 other families under a single roof. Often multiple generations live in the same house whose debt was paid off by a past generation - easing the burden. Many people making $150k and are single live with roommates until the age of 40. It is very easy to fall off a cliff in NYC.
ss108 5y ago
Whatever they do, however they live, they aren't saving money, aren't financially stable or robust (i.e. positioned to weather emergencies), and have low material qualities of life. Why dissent while others try to help OP out of a situation where he's in a similar situation and should be making more based on his experience?
scarface74 5y ago
It’s irrelevant what most people do. He is in an industry where he can make more.

So what do the millions of households earning <$60k do? Are they going tens of thousands of dollars deeper in debt each year?

by lkbm 5y ago

So what do the millions of households earning <$60k do? Are they going tens of thousands of dollars deeper in debt each year?

serioussecurity 5y ago

In NYC? They're living without health insurance, 8 people in a 3 bedroom, with less than $500 in savings, and credit card debt, yes. Or they commute two hours each way from Philly. America does not treat it's people well. https://fortunly.com/statistics/american-savings-statistics/#gref https://fortunly.com/statistics/american-savings-statistics/...

Jcowell 5y ago
Errr. I think there’s a big disconnect here. 1) NYC is not just Manhattan. The outer boroughs are also NYC and are far cheaper. Not Nashville cheap but livable. You don’t need 8 people in 3 bedrooms. You can even live in jersey. 2) A lot of NYC has affordable housing and projects. A lot of communities making the basic minimum wage or not at all can live there. 3) 110K is a absolutely doable in NYC. It’s just not doable if you live outside your means.
lkbm 5y ago
> In NYC? They're living without health insurance, 8 people in a 3 bedroom, with less than $500 in savings, and credit card debt, yes. I understand that they don't have savings and have some credit card debt, but we're talking $50,000 per year. And this is over the median household income[0]. Are the people in the 25th percentile living 16 people in a 3 bedroom? The OP has updated to say their mortgage is only $2,600/mo., so even after housing that leaves ~70k over what median household makes before rent. (The OP also reports having three kids, which is almost certainly a large part of that $70k.) I suspect you don't spend a lot of time with people making $30-$70k. They exist, often have housing, and many of them even eat food. It's worth examining how they manage rather than dismissing this as an impossibility. > Or they commute two hours each way from Philly. Nope. NYC residents. Median household income of $63,998 (2019). [0] https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/newyorkcitynewyork/INC110219#INC110219 https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/newyorkcitynewy...

nine_zeros 5y ago

Bad debt is the easy option. Sometimes they work 2 jobs or live out in the exurbs and commute 4 hours a day. Sometimes they drive for uber with their child in the front seat because they can't pay for daycare. Sometimes they engage in gambling or other under the radar activities just to supplement their income. Some of them own their homes outright. Others live with 2 other families under a single roof. Often multiple generations live in the same house whose debt was paid off by a past generation - easing the burden. Many people making $150k and are single live with roommates until the age of 40. It is very easy to fall off a cliff in NYC.

ss108 5y ago

Whatever they do, however they live, they aren't saving money, aren't financially stable or robust (i.e. positioned to weather emergencies), and have low material qualities of life. Why dissent while others try to help OP out of a situation where he's in a similar situation and should be making more based on his experience?

scarface74 5y ago

It’s irrelevant what most people do. He is in an industry where he can make more.