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“Imposter syndrome” is fundamentally a humblebrag as the implicit notion is that your worthiness is so obvious and the system which privileged you is so righteo

“Imposter syndrome” is fundamentally a humblebrag as the implicit notion is that your worthiness is so obvious and the system which privileged you is so righteous as to make any doubts some sort of disorder. I’ll see people being like “I have imposter syndrome being in an Ivy League school/elite job/etc” and the idea that they could be gasp merely average and just overrated is so preposterous as to warrant immediate assistance from a doctor! They’re suffering from a modesty attack basically, which is no surprise as their greatness is hard for them to square with in their own minds. Imposter syndrome is really mostly having an objective view of the world and realizing that elite success is mostly arbitrary especially when that success has no objective measure. It’s pathologized because it threatens power and people are encouraged to believe they are indeed special.

gjulianm 5y ago
Honestly, I don't think you understand what imposter syndrome is. It is an inability to properly assess one's competence. These people do not think they are "merely average", they think they are the bottom of the barrel, and those thoughts lead to serious behavioral issues and the condition might degrade to a generalized anxiety disorder or depression. I'd recommend focusing on what people say and do instead of what you see with your own biases.
- faeriechangling 5y ago
  In the broad societal sense I’m talking about, people with imposter syndrome do not believe they’re the bottom of the barrel, maybe they believe they’re at the bottom of a given organization or trade but being at the bottom of such things is not that bad in the grand scheme of things. My lack of belief in imposter syndrome is only strengthened by people advocating they believe in it out of concern for negative outcomes if we did not deny it as that creates an obvious bias. Depressed people also have more objective views of their own performance than non-depressed people (they are irrational in some ways, but not THIS way).
  - gjulianm 5y ago
    > In the broad societal sense I’m talking about, people with imposter syndrome do not believe they’re the bottom of the barrel, maybe they believe they’re at the bottom of a given organization or trade but being at the bottom of such things is not that bad in the grand scheme of things. I know people with imposter syndrome. They do believe they're the worst, that they are just fooling everyone and that someone is going to find out. That they're not valid at all for whatever it is they're doing, no matter what that is. It's not just about low self-esteem, and it isn't extremely rare to see it similar signs outside of a work context (relationships, study, hobbies). > My lack of belief in imposter syndrome is only strengthened by people advocating they believe in it out of concern for negative outcomes if we did not deny it as that creates an obvious bias. Depressed people also have more objective views of their own performance than non-depressed people (they are irrational in some ways, but not THIS way). "Believing in it out of concern"? Honestly, you have absolutely no idea about this issue. I've seen the real consequences of this. It's not just about believing they're out of place, but the behavioral changes those irrational thoughts bring. From the mild ones such as slowing down their careers because they don't think they're worthy to take on new opportunities, or reduced work performance, to serious ones like complete decision paralysis or extreme overpreparation to the point of neglecting other aspects of their life, and it can evolve to serious anxiety and depression disorders with all the consequences those have. > Depressed people also have more objective views of their own performance than non-depressed people (they are irrational in some ways, but not THIS way). Imposter syndrome and depression are different things. Clearly you don't know what the disorder is and yet you feel you're perfectly qualified to dismiss it as a non-existing thing. You can think you're bad at your job and that doesn't necessarily mean it's imposter syndrome. You might even think you're actually an imposter and that those around you think better of you than you actually are and it still doesn't mean it's imposter syndrome 100%. If the assessment is more or less accurate and specially if you can deal with that in a healthy way, it's not imposter syndrome. That's the issue, that's why it's a disorder. It's not about "the thought" but about the thought being irrational and immovable by evidence, and about the actual effects and disruptions those thoughts have on the daily life of the person.
ineedasername 5y ago
>implicit notion is that your worthiness is so obvious Where do you get the idea that this is part of imposter syndrome? The whole concept of imposter syndrome is that it's an irrationally held belief and the person doesn't feel worthy despite evidence to the contrary. That your own experience with people making the claim has been from people from elite schools/jobs/etc. doesn't prove anything about imposter syndrome being fundamentally a humble brag: Half the people that apply to elite schools exceed the average academic profile for admission to those schools and there are plenty of qualified candidates for most job openings in elite workplaces. Chance & luck play a huge part in in who, of the many qualified individuals, get those spots. Why is it hard for you to understand that some people irrationally but honestly focus exclusively on the chance & luck aspects of their accomplishments? Irrationality is hardly uncommon, why is it difficult to believe that imposter syndrome isn't just another one, and instead must be some sort of bragging? It is also possible that, in your social circles, people are simply misusing the term as a misguided way to acknowledge the role that chance & luck played in their success. Of course there's always going to be some annoying people that often use it as a chance to slip "I went to an Ivy League school" or some other brag into a conversation, but that doesn't mean everyone does.
- faeriechangling 5y ago
  > The whole concept of imposter syndrome is that it's an irrationally held belief and the person doesn't feel worthy despite evidence to the contrary. So in other words the concept with imposter syndrome is that peoples worthiness is obvious? It would be impossible for me to deny that there must be somebody out there with irrationally low self esteem, yet the fact that imposter syndrome MOSTLY affects people of privilege implies that it’s grounded in rationality. We’re it just a completely arbitrary phenomenon Joe working as a fry cook would feel it just as strongly as Bob working as a CEO. It’s taken as a just-so foregone conclusion that if you are experiencing imposter syndrome, you’re irrational. Nobody will ever go into a therapists office, tell them they think they’re an imposter, and be told “yup sure seems that way, may as well make the best of it”. It’s taken as a self-evident truth that anything but high self esteem is an irrational state of being, and people repeat this to themselves and others. Its all very self serving and I’m distrustful.

gjulianm 5y ago

Honestly, I don't think you understand what imposter syndrome is. It is an inability to properly assess one's competence. These people do not think they are "merely average", they think they are the bottom of the barrel, and those thoughts lead to serious behavioral issues and the condition might degrade to a generalized anxiety disorder or depression. I'd recommend focusing on what people say and do instead of what you see with your own biases.

faeriechangling 5y ago
In the broad societal sense I’m talking about, people with imposter syndrome do not believe they’re the bottom of the barrel, maybe they believe they’re at the bottom of a given organization or trade but being at the bottom of such things is not that bad in the grand scheme of things. My lack of belief in imposter syndrome is only strengthened by people advocating they believe in it out of concern for negative outcomes if we did not deny it as that creates an obvious bias. Depressed people also have more objective views of their own performance than non-depressed people (they are irrational in some ways, but not THIS way).
- gjulianm 5y ago
  > In the broad societal sense I’m talking about, people with imposter syndrome do not believe they’re the bottom of the barrel, maybe they believe they’re at the bottom of a given organization or trade but being at the bottom of such things is not that bad in the grand scheme of things. I know people with imposter syndrome. They do believe they're the worst, that they are just fooling everyone and that someone is going to find out. That they're not valid at all for whatever it is they're doing, no matter what that is. It's not just about low self-esteem, and it isn't extremely rare to see it similar signs outside of a work context (relationships, study, hobbies). > My lack of belief in imposter syndrome is only strengthened by people advocating they believe in it out of concern for negative outcomes if we did not deny it as that creates an obvious bias. Depressed people also have more objective views of their own performance than non-depressed people (they are irrational in some ways, but not THIS way). "Believing in it out of concern"? Honestly, you have absolutely no idea about this issue. I've seen the real consequences of this. It's not just about believing they're out of place, but the behavioral changes those irrational thoughts bring. From the mild ones such as slowing down their careers because they don't think they're worthy to take on new opportunities, or reduced work performance, to serious ones like complete decision paralysis or extreme overpreparation to the point of neglecting other aspects of their life, and it can evolve to serious anxiety and depression disorders with all the consequences those have. > Depressed people also have more objective views of their own performance than non-depressed people (they are irrational in some ways, but not THIS way). Imposter syndrome and depression are different things. Clearly you don't know what the disorder is and yet you feel you're perfectly qualified to dismiss it as a non-existing thing. You can think you're bad at your job and that doesn't necessarily mean it's imposter syndrome. You might even think you're actually an imposter and that those around you think better of you than you actually are and it still doesn't mean it's imposter syndrome 100%. If the assessment is more or less accurate and specially if you can deal with that in a healthy way, it's not imposter syndrome. That's the issue, that's why it's a disorder. It's not about "the thought" but about the thought being irrational and immovable by evidence, and about the actual effects and disruptions those thoughts have on the daily life of the person.

ineedasername 5y ago

>implicit notion is that your worthiness is so obvious Where do you get the idea that this is part of imposter syndrome? The whole concept of imposter syndrome is that it's an irrationally held belief and the person doesn't feel worthy despite evidence to the contrary. That your own experience with people making the claim has been from people from elite schools/jobs/etc. doesn't prove anything about imposter syndrome being fundamentally a humble brag: Half the people that apply to elite schools exceed the average academic profile for admission to those schools and there are plenty of qualified candidates for most job openings in elite workplaces. Chance & luck play a huge part in in who, of the many qualified individuals, get those spots. Why is it hard for you to understand that some people irrationally but honestly focus exclusively on the chance & luck aspects of their accomplishments? Irrationality is hardly uncommon, why is it difficult to believe that imposter syndrome isn't just another one, and instead must be some sort of bragging? It is also possible that, in your social circles, people are simply misusing the term as a misguided way to acknowledge the role that chance & luck played in their success. Of course there's always going to be some annoying people that often use it as a chance to slip "I went to an Ivy League school" or some other brag into a conversation, but that doesn't mean everyone does.

faeriechangling 5y ago
> The whole concept of imposter syndrome is that it's an irrationally held belief and the person doesn't feel worthy despite evidence to the contrary. So in other words the concept with imposter syndrome is that peoples worthiness is obvious? It would be impossible for me to deny that there must be somebody out there with irrationally low self esteem, yet the fact that imposter syndrome MOSTLY affects people of privilege implies that it’s grounded in rationality. We’re it just a completely arbitrary phenomenon Joe working as a fry cook would feel it just as strongly as Bob working as a CEO. It’s taken as a just-so foregone conclusion that if you are experiencing imposter syndrome, you’re irrational. Nobody will ever go into a therapists office, tell them they think they’re an imposter, and be told “yup sure seems that way, may as well make the best of it”. It’s taken as a self-evident truth that anything but high self esteem is an irrational state of being, and people repeat this to themselves and others. Its all very self serving and I’m distrustful.