4 ms·

Did they provide a rationale for this change? Or is this more of a "middle manager's bonus depends on engagement KPI" kind of thing?

by tgv 5y ago

AdmiralAsshat 5y ago
Does Google ever provide a rationale for why they continue to twist Android internals to use More Google?
- AniseAbyss 5y ago
  I always felt Google regards Android as a mistake. It is too open. Just look at how iOS is printing money for Apple with its walled garden. And Google's Pixel line smartphones are not selling. If they could do it all over again things would be very different.
  - hef19898 5y ago
    I'm happy with the Pixel line, so I hope they don't try to redo them. Google tried to turn the Pixel phones into Google's iPhones ever since they dropped the Nexus branding.
    - AdmiralAsshat 5y ago
      It certainly helped when they bought half of HTC's engineers in 2017.
      - hef19898 5y ago
        I loved the LG made Nexus phones a lot back the day. But yes HTC did build nice, solid phones as well.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    Alphabet simply does not want to invest enough in R&D to develop devices as solid as Apple’s, nor do they want the expenses of in person support. Nothing has stopped them for the past 15 years from spending money to develop a similar locked down device and building out a network of retail stores. They would rather leave the expensive hardware business to other companies since it does not scale as cheaply as slinging ads via software. Microsoft is guilty of the same. They are happy with the high margin rent from Azure/Windows/Office licensing, so why bother rolling the dice on expensive hardware development and support.
    - nr2x 5y ago
      Given the recent investment in a custom chip, the opening of a store in NYC, massive ad spend for pixel, and statements on earnings calls noting hardware investment I don’t think it’s lack of desire. Nest and sundry Google Home devices far exceed Apple’s equivalent offerings. I think the truth may be Apple just makes it look easy, and it’s really hard - even with the resources at Google’s disposal.
  - toyg 5y ago
    Oh no no no. They executed the MS playbook perfectly. Now it's just the time to cash in. It's "Google - The Ballmer Years".
  - zozbot234 5y ago
    They seem to be adding very little wrt. useful features, and resorting to pointless churn as we're seeing here. Unfortunately the most workable "open" alternative is the mainline Linux stack, which has yet to reach "daily driver" usability on any device. Sailfish is a non starter as it's just a closed UX on top of vendor kernels and drivers, only the middle layers are open.
- d3nj4l 5y ago
  Oh, just wait a while. Google employees will be logging in soon, you’ll see the rationale on this very thread!
  - nixass 5y ago
    "That's an excellent question...."
  - xg15 5y ago
    Waiting for the obligatory "Googler here, not on the Android team, but here's my totally personal opinion why this is actually a good thing..."
    - Spivak 5y ago
      My guess is that people who juggle multiple browsers and who want actively want a null default are nonexistent but the people who are confused when opening links after installing a second app that works as a http handler changing the flow are.
      - Steltek 5y ago
        I'm one of those nonexistent people. I have Firefox for personal use and then Chrome for work stuff. Depending on the app launching the link, I choose the browser myself. The new work profile container stuff has somewhat reduced the utility of this but it's not gone for me yet.
        crocodiletears 5y ago
        Same story. Got four different browsers I work with.
      - nickflood 5y ago
        I use MS Edge for trusted websites and the ones I want to be logged into and DuckDuckGo browser for random pages and news articles which are normally filled with ads and tracking code.
- naoqj 5y ago
  Because they will not be developing an operating system completely for free? It makes no sense.
  - zaat 5y ago
    They don't. I paid them good money for hardware that contains the OS with updates for 4 years.
    - fsflover 5y ago
      > I paid them good money You think it was a good money, but they disagree and want (much) more.
  - justsomehnguy 5y ago
    >completely for free Yeah, yeah. And the money they spend on it doesn't come for a multibillion ad business.
unethical_ban 5y ago
It is possible that 98% of people aren't as familiar with digging through said menus, and that they would prefer having a default application, and that this is the way to force it. I don't enjoy power-user features and functions being removed from a device, but I've come to expect it on mobile. I don't think it is always willful "evil". It may just be "this is how most people do it, this is a way to simplify code/UX/etc." and they pull the trigger without thinking about the HN or reddit thread with a few people complaining.
- BuildTheRobots 5y ago
  I'd make the point that previously when opening a link or document that could be used by multiple locations you got a popup asking which one to use and if it should always be used or as a one off. No problems with defaults, but you should let the user pick.
- AdmiralAsshat 5y ago
  That's a little hard to believe, because the prompt makes it very obvious what's happening. If you attempt to open a link and it prompts you to pick a browser, the options are (using my own phone as an example: Open With (Samsung Internet) (Chrome) (Firefox) (Firefox Focus) Just Once | Always Android already really wants you to click "Always" and just have something set. But I click "Just Once" every time, because I want the freedom to use Firefox Focus for the random clickbait article that shows up in my news feed that I don't want polluting my Firefox history. By its nature, it is already an intentional decision on my part. This being removed from Android 12 is Google saying, "Yeah, we really don't want you to have that choice anymore, because you might not pick the right choice for us."
  - cryptoz 5y ago
    You say that this prompt is "very obvious" but I strongly disagree. > Open With > (Samsung Internet) (Chrome) (Firefox) (Firefox Focus) > Just Once | Always I'm an android developer and have been for more than 10 years. I get messed up at this kind of prompt sometimes, and just the other day I thought to myself, 'surprised google hasn't improved that yet ' I'm sure 99%+ global android users find the experience confusing.
judge2020 5y ago
Perhaps when you uninstalled a default third-party browser before, it was setting the default to None? Eg. install Firefox -> delete it -> now links take an extra click to actually open in a browser.

Did they provide a rationale for this change? Or is this more of a "middle manager's bonus depends on engagement KPI" kind of thing?

by tgv 5y ago

Did they provide a rationale for this change? Or is this more of a "middle manager's bonus depends on engagement KPI" kind of thing?

AdmiralAsshat 5y ago

Does Google ever provide a rationale for why they continue to twist Android internals to use More Google?

AniseAbyss 5y ago
I always felt Google regards Android as a mistake. It is too open. Just look at how iOS is printing money for Apple with its walled garden. And Google's Pixel line smartphones are not selling. If they could do it all over again things would be very different.
- hef19898 5y ago
  I'm happy with the Pixel line, so I hope they don't try to redo them. Google tried to turn the Pixel phones into Google's iPhones ever since they dropped the Nexus branding.
  - AdmiralAsshat 5y ago
    It certainly helped when they bought half of HTC's engineers in 2017.
    - hef19898 5y ago
      I loved the LG made Nexus phones a lot back the day. But yes HTC did build nice, solid phones as well.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  Alphabet simply does not want to invest enough in R&D to develop devices as solid as Apple’s, nor do they want the expenses of in person support. Nothing has stopped them for the past 15 years from spending money to develop a similar locked down device and building out a network of retail stores. They would rather leave the expensive hardware business to other companies since it does not scale as cheaply as slinging ads via software. Microsoft is guilty of the same. They are happy with the high margin rent from Azure/Windows/Office licensing, so why bother rolling the dice on expensive hardware development and support.
  - nr2x 5y ago
    Given the recent investment in a custom chip, the opening of a store in NYC, massive ad spend for pixel, and statements on earnings calls noting hardware investment I don’t think it’s lack of desire. Nest and sundry Google Home devices far exceed Apple’s equivalent offerings. I think the truth may be Apple just makes it look easy, and it’s really hard - even with the resources at Google’s disposal.
- toyg 5y ago
  Oh no no no. They executed the MS playbook perfectly. Now it's just the time to cash in. It's "Google - The Ballmer Years".
- zozbot234 5y ago
  They seem to be adding very little wrt. useful features, and resorting to pointless churn as we're seeing here. Unfortunately the most workable "open" alternative is the mainline Linux stack, which has yet to reach "daily driver" usability on any device. Sailfish is a non starter as it's just a closed UX on top of vendor kernels and drivers, only the middle layers are open.
d3nj4l 5y ago
Oh, just wait a while. Google employees will be logging in soon, you’ll see the rationale on this very thread!
- nixass 5y ago
  "That's an excellent question...."
- xg15 5y ago
  Waiting for the obligatory "Googler here, not on the Android team, but here's my totally personal opinion why this is actually a good thing..."
  - Spivak 5y ago
    My guess is that people who juggle multiple browsers and who want actively want a null default are nonexistent but the people who are confused when opening links after installing a second app that works as a http handler changing the flow are.
    - Steltek 5y ago
      I'm one of those nonexistent people. I have Firefox for personal use and then Chrome for work stuff. Depending on the app launching the link, I choose the browser myself. The new work profile container stuff has somewhat reduced the utility of this but it's not gone for me yet.
      - crocodiletears 5y ago
        Same story. Got four different browsers I work with.
    - nickflood 5y ago
      I use MS Edge for trusted websites and the ones I want to be logged into and DuckDuckGo browser for random pages and news articles which are normally filled with ads and tracking code.
naoqj 5y ago
Because they will not be developing an operating system completely for free? It makes no sense.
- zaat 5y ago
  They don't. I paid them good money for hardware that contains the OS with updates for 4 years.
  - fsflover 5y ago
    > I paid them good money You think it was a good money, but they disagree and want (much) more.
- justsomehnguy 5y ago
  >completely for free Yeah, yeah. And the money they spend on it doesn't come for a multibillion ad business.

unethical_ban 5y ago

It is possible that 98% of people aren't as familiar with digging through said menus, and that they would prefer having a default application, and that this is the way to force it. I don't enjoy power-user features and functions being removed from a device, but I've come to expect it on mobile. I don't think it is always willful "evil". It may just be "this is how most people do it, this is a way to simplify code/UX/etc." and they pull the trigger without thinking about the HN or reddit thread with a few people complaining.

BuildTheRobots 5y ago
I'd make the point that previously when opening a link or document that could be used by multiple locations you got a popup asking which one to use and if it should always be used or as a one off. No problems with defaults, but you should let the user pick.
AdmiralAsshat 5y ago
That's a little hard to believe, because the prompt makes it very obvious what's happening. If you attempt to open a link and it prompts you to pick a browser, the options are (using my own phone as an example: Open With (Samsung Internet) (Chrome) (Firefox) (Firefox Focus) Just Once | Always Android already really wants you to click "Always" and just have something set. But I click "Just Once" every time, because I want the freedom to use Firefox Focus for the random clickbait article that shows up in my news feed that I don't want polluting my Firefox history. By its nature, it is already an intentional decision on my part. This being removed from Android 12 is Google saying, "Yeah, we really don't want you to have that choice anymore, because you might not pick the right choice for us."
- cryptoz 5y ago
  You say that this prompt is "very obvious" but I strongly disagree. > Open With > (Samsung Internet) (Chrome) (Firefox) (Firefox Focus) > Just Once | Always I'm an android developer and have been for more than 10 years. I get messed up at this kind of prompt sometimes, and just the other day I thought to myself, 'surprised google hasn't improved that yet ' I'm sure 99%+ global android users find the experience confusing.

judge2020 5y ago

Perhaps when you uninstalled a default third-party browser before, it was setting the default to None? Eg. install Firefox -> delete it -> now links take an extra click to actually open in a browser.