5 ms·

Has it ever occurred to you that maybe you are an imposter? (2020) [pdf]

42 points by danielam 5y ago

_benj 5y ago
Remind me of a random idea from heard somewhere: I’m not crazy because crazy people don’t think they are crazy… Loved what the author mentioned about how not being an imposter can be verified. Have you produced something that solves a customer need? Have you fixed a bug in somebody’s code? Have you produced something that is of value to somebody else? Then you are not an imposter! You are able to do what a typical developer should do. We all don’t need to be Linuses or Bills or R&K to not be an imposter. At the same time, I totally agree with the author’s assertion about the irony of “confessing” feeling like an imposter. It’s like bragging about how humble one is!
- ineedasername 5y ago
  >...then you are not an imposter! Imposter syndrome is not about reasoned self-assessment, it is specifically and pretty much by definition an irrational belief held by someone despite clear evidence to the contrary. As such, this does not mean it isn't a real thing, or that as the article's author claims it is some sort of humble brag or other form of self promotion. Like any irrational belief, simply telling the person it's irrational or providing evidence they are undoubtedly already aware of is not a cure all for this state of mind. In this, it's more like OCD. (and in fact imposter syndrome often coexists with forms of mental health issues) Telling an OCD person who just checked the doorknob for the 3rd time that it's locked, they don't need to check a 4th, they know & remember checking already... yeah, that doesn't work. Of course then there's the issue of just how irrational aspects of imposter syndrome actually are. Often it's associated with the feeling that it was random chance or luck that landed someone where they are in life. Which is true! Wherever you are in life, it took countless minor and major events over which you had no control to get you where you are: Perhaps a friend happens to know someone where you're applying for a job and puts in a good word, putting you ahead of plenty of other candidates qualified for the job. Where you sit in a meeting one day ends up forging a fruitful professional friendship with the person next to you. You decide to check in on an old colleague on LinkedIn when you haven't bothered to login there for a year and see a job opportunity... So why shouldn't someone feel that their place in life was the result of many random chance encounters or small choices or being in the right place at the right time? It's true! The problem enters into things only when a person focusses on those facts to the exclusion of all others and clings irrationally to the belief that those were the only factors. That getting a job with the help of a friend's recommendation didn't also mean that they were qualified for it anyway. That they might have developed a fruitful professional relationship with almost anyone they sat next to in the meeting given a few minutes of conversation. And so on. Yes, people will find plenty of ways to humble brag and I'm sure this is one of them. But someone who automatically thinks anyone expressing this sentiment is just some variety of self-promoting braggart says more about their own toxic cynicism than their insight into the mindset and behavior of others.
- sumtechguy 5y ago
  For me sometimes I know exactly what I am doing. I am 'the guy' for that thing. But for many items I have zero idea how I am going to go about it. That is when it kicks in for me. But I recognize it and use it as a reason to say 'hey explain this to me'. Instead of sitting around hoping no one notices. I use it to my advantage.
technothrasher 5y ago
That write up itself sounded like the "humble brag" that the author was complaining about.
- bryanrasmussen 5y ago
  you know even I feel like an imposter sometimes, but I don't go around bragging about it unlike this list of other jerks that do!
- disambiguation 5y ago
  The author left out the "junior cynic" Everything is being done wrong and they think they're being a valuable skeptic telling you so, but really they're just trying to show the world how much they get it, and are ultimately not as smart as they think they are ;)
  - blitzar 5y ago
    I believe that is the syndrome of being an imposter that pretends to be competent, rather than the syndrome of believing despite competence that one is an impostor.
throwra620 5y ago
mistertester 5y ago
I have suffered from imposter syndrome in the past and it stemmed from a previous job where the leadership intended to make you feel useless and incompetent. I have overcome it recently and have more confidence in myself these days. I am not aware why people would use imposter syndrome as a way to brag but for myself I genuinely didn't feel comfortable about myself.
aaron695 5y ago
saagarjha 5y ago
Just want to vent for a moment, because the author seems to genuinely think that people displaying vulnerability and disclosing their impostor syndrome to you is some sort of humblebrag? You don’t need to sus out some sort of hidden meaning here: the person doesn’t feel comfortable in their current environment and is probably seeking support and validation. There are surely some among us who are “faking” it, but that’s literally true of everything, so I don’t see the reason to assume bad faith :/
- faeriechangling 5y ago
  “Imposter syndrome” is fundamentally a humblebrag as the implicit notion is that your worthiness is so obvious and the system which privileged you is so righteous as to make any doubts some sort of disorder. I’ll see people being like “I have imposter syndrome being in an Ivy League school/elite job/etc” and the idea that they could be gasp merely average and just overrated is so preposterous as to warrant immediate assistance from a doctor! They’re suffering from a modesty attack basically, which is no surprise as their greatness is hard for them to square with in their own minds. Imposter syndrome is really mostly having an objective view of the world and realizing that elite success is mostly arbitrary especially when that success has no objective measure. It’s pathologized because it threatens power and people are encouraged to believe they are indeed special.
  - gjulianm 5y ago
    Honestly, I don't think you understand what imposter syndrome is. It is an inability to properly assess one's competence. These people do not think they are "merely average", they think they are the bottom of the barrel, and those thoughts lead to serious behavioral issues and the condition might degrade to a generalized anxiety disorder or depression. I'd recommend focusing on what people say and do instead of what you see with your own biases.
    - faeriechangling 5y ago
      In the broad societal sense I’m talking about, people with imposter syndrome do not believe they’re the bottom of the barrel, maybe they believe they’re at the bottom of a given organization or trade but being at the bottom of such things is not that bad in the grand scheme of things. My lack of belief in imposter syndrome is only strengthened by people advocating they believe in it out of concern for negative outcomes if we did not deny it as that creates an obvious bias. Depressed people also have more objective views of their own performance than non-depressed people (they are irrational in some ways, but not THIS way).
rjh29 5y ago
Writeup ignores the nuances of mental health - there is a gradient between "I am definitely an imposter" and "I have imposter sydrome, these thoughts are not real". In between is a miasma of self-doubt and anxiety. And it can change depending on the time and the situation. If a friend or colleague confided in me that they felt like an imposter (but weren't sure) I would treat that as a tremendous act of trust, not an attempt at 'humble bragging'.
- zensavona 5y ago
  This. We exist in a weird situation where on one hand we are encouraged to be open and transparent about what we don't know, in order to grow and improve, but on the other hand, are paid and valued largely according to what we know. Crossing that boundary required a lot of trust at times. Company culture valuing growth over outright performance can go a long way, but is also sometimes not aligned profits.
  - packetlost 5y ago
    I wonder how much of imposter syndrome is driven by environmental factors. I work in an environment that's on the bleeding edge of software, hardware, and physics and hardly anyone actually knows everything in their subject area off hand, but "I can ask someone else, or do some reading and get back to you" is not an uncommon phrase here. There's a huge difference between not being able to understand something (via referencing external sources) and being able to answer an arbitrary question about it from memory.
henning 5y ago
You don't know what people are actually going through without gathering more information. Maybe they are in the wrong job or field, maybe their coworkers are just jerks and they have insecurity due to how poeple have treated them in the past. Constructing strawmen like this is easy and not insightful.
deleted 5y ago
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deleted 5y ago
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ineedasername 5y ago
This fails to acknowledge the fact that imposter syndrome is generally an irrational belief and often coexists with others forms of mental health issues. This means that (while I'm sure it's part of a humble brag sometimes) that admitting to this feeling while following up with evidence to the contrary fits squarely with the fact that it's an irrational belief. It's one that is held despite counter evidence that the individual may be fully aware of. Try telling someone with OCD that they don't need to check the door lock for the 4th time. They remember checking it 5 seconds earlier, and 5 before that. It's not about evidence. As such, this article says very little about the people the author makes fun of but a whole lot about the author's ignorance on the topic.
JadeNB 5y ago
"Everyone else can successfully fake feeling like an imposter, but I can't …."
blitzar 5y ago
noun: imposter syndrome the persistent inability to believe that one's success is deserved or has been legitimately achieved as a result of one's own efforts or skills. I am not sure the author and I share the same definition of the subject of the piece.
Tzela 5y ago
This article makes me furious. What does the author want to tell us? That everyone who feels like an imposter, and talks about it, is an arrogant arse that only wants to brag? Maybe he is and all the people he meets are. But me as well as many of my close friends (none of them arrogant, I assure you) do feel like an imposter at their specific jobs from time to time. It's a thing that holds us back, a personal insecurity that we just carry around. We have learned to live with it and accept it as just something completely normal, especially because we talked about it.
- paulmooreparks 5y ago
  The answer is in the top-right corner of the page: NSFW a humorous look
  - gjulianm 5y ago
    I don't find the humor in diminishing a non-trivial mental health issue and making fun of the people suffering from it, and I don't think I'm alone in that.
  - Tzela 5y ago
    Ah, I see, oh so funny. haha. /s
humansuit 5y ago
Sooo no way to win here, according to this edgy take. This philosophy, where any expression of stress is just a ploy, seems like a great way to prevent people from reaching out to each other for help with the psychological pressures of intense work environments, thus making it all worse.

42 points by danielam 5y ago

Remind me of a random idea from heard somewhere: I’m not crazy because crazy people don’t think they are crazy… Loved what the author mentioned about how not being an imposter can be verified. Have you produced something that solves a customer need? Have you fixed a bug in somebody’s code? Have you produced something that is of value to somebody else? Then you are not an imposter! You are able to do what a typical developer should do. We all don’t need to be Linuses or Bills or R&K to not be an imposter. At the same time, I totally agree with the author’s assertion about the irony of “confessing” feeling like an imposter. It’s like bragging about how humble one is!

ineedasername 5y ago
>...then you are not an imposter! Imposter syndrome is not about reasoned self-assessment, it is specifically and pretty much by definition an irrational belief held by someone despite clear evidence to the contrary. As such, this does not mean it isn't a real thing, or that as the article's author claims it is some sort of humble brag or other form of self promotion. Like any irrational belief, simply telling the person it's irrational or providing evidence they are undoubtedly already aware of is not a cure all for this state of mind. In this, it's more like OCD. (and in fact imposter syndrome often coexists with forms of mental health issues) Telling an OCD person who just checked the doorknob for the 3rd time that it's locked, they don't need to check a 4th, they know & remember checking already... yeah, that doesn't work. Of course then there's the issue of just how irrational aspects of imposter syndrome actually are. Often it's associated with the feeling that it was random chance or luck that landed someone where they are in life. Which is true! Wherever you are in life, it took countless minor and major events over which you had no control to get you where you are: Perhaps a friend happens to know someone where you're applying for a job and puts in a good word, putting you ahead of plenty of other candidates qualified for the job. Where you sit in a meeting one day ends up forging a fruitful professional friendship with the person next to you. You decide to check in on an old colleague on LinkedIn when you haven't bothered to login there for a year and see a job opportunity... So why shouldn't someone feel that their place in life was the result of many random chance encounters or small choices or being in the right place at the right time? It's true! The problem enters into things only when a person focusses on those facts to the exclusion of all others and clings irrationally to the belief that those were the only factors. That getting a job with the help of a friend's recommendation didn't also mean that they were qualified for it anyway. That they might have developed a fruitful professional relationship with almost anyone they sat next to in the meeting given a few minutes of conversation. And so on. Yes, people will find plenty of ways to humble brag and I'm sure this is one of them. But someone who automatically thinks anyone expressing this sentiment is just some variety of self-promoting braggart says more about their own toxic cynicism than their insight into the mindset and behavior of others.
sumtechguy 5y ago
For me sometimes I know exactly what I am doing. I am 'the guy' for that thing. But for many items I have zero idea how I am going to go about it. That is when it kicks in for me. But I recognize it and use it as a reason to say 'hey explain this to me'. Instead of sitting around hoping no one notices. I use it to my advantage.

technothrasher 5y ago

That write up itself sounded like the "humble brag" that the author was complaining about.

bryanrasmussen 5y ago
you know even I feel like an imposter sometimes, but I don't go around bragging about it unlike this list of other jerks that do!
disambiguation 5y ago
The author left out the "junior cynic" Everything is being done wrong and they think they're being a valuable skeptic telling you so, but really they're just trying to show the world how much they get it, and are ultimately not as smart as they think they are ;)
- blitzar 5y ago
  I believe that is the syndrome of being an imposter that pretends to be competent, rather than the syndrome of believing despite competence that one is an impostor.

throwra620 5y ago

mistertester 5y ago

I have suffered from imposter syndrome in the past and it stemmed from a previous job where the leadership intended to make you feel useless and incompetent. I have overcome it recently and have more confidence in myself these days. I am not aware why people would use imposter syndrome as a way to brag but for myself I genuinely didn't feel comfortable about myself.

aaron695 5y ago

saagarjha 5y ago

Just want to vent for a moment, because the author seems to genuinely think that people displaying vulnerability and disclosing their impostor syndrome to you is some sort of humblebrag? You don’t need to sus out some sort of hidden meaning here: the person doesn’t feel comfortable in their current environment and is probably seeking support and validation. There are surely some among us who are “faking” it, but that’s literally true of everything, so I don’t see the reason to assume bad faith :/

faeriechangling 5y ago
“Imposter syndrome” is fundamentally a humblebrag as the implicit notion is that your worthiness is so obvious and the system which privileged you is so righteous as to make any doubts some sort of disorder. I’ll see people being like “I have imposter syndrome being in an Ivy League school/elite job/etc” and the idea that they could be gasp merely average and just overrated is so preposterous as to warrant immediate assistance from a doctor! They’re suffering from a modesty attack basically, which is no surprise as their greatness is hard for them to square with in their own minds. Imposter syndrome is really mostly having an objective view of the world and realizing that elite success is mostly arbitrary especially when that success has no objective measure. It’s pathologized because it threatens power and people are encouraged to believe they are indeed special.
- gjulianm 5y ago
  Honestly, I don't think you understand what imposter syndrome is. It is an inability to properly assess one's competence. These people do not think they are "merely average", they think they are the bottom of the barrel, and those thoughts lead to serious behavioral issues and the condition might degrade to a generalized anxiety disorder or depression. I'd recommend focusing on what people say and do instead of what you see with your own biases.
  - faeriechangling 5y ago
    In the broad societal sense I’m talking about, people with imposter syndrome do not believe they’re the bottom of the barrel, maybe they believe they’re at the bottom of a given organization or trade but being at the bottom of such things is not that bad in the grand scheme of things. My lack of belief in imposter syndrome is only strengthened by people advocating they believe in it out of concern for negative outcomes if we did not deny it as that creates an obvious bias. Depressed people also have more objective views of their own performance than non-depressed people (they are irrational in some ways, but not THIS way).

rjh29 5y ago

Writeup ignores the nuances of mental health - there is a gradient between "I am definitely an imposter" and "I have imposter sydrome, these thoughts are not real". In between is a miasma of self-doubt and anxiety. And it can change depending on the time and the situation. If a friend or colleague confided in me that they felt like an imposter (but weren't sure) I would treat that as a tremendous act of trust, not an attempt at 'humble bragging'.

zensavona 5y ago
This. We exist in a weird situation where on one hand we are encouraged to be open and transparent about what we don't know, in order to grow and improve, but on the other hand, are paid and valued largely according to what we know. Crossing that boundary required a lot of trust at times. Company culture valuing growth over outright performance can go a long way, but is also sometimes not aligned profits.
- packetlost 5y ago
  I wonder how much of imposter syndrome is driven by environmental factors. I work in an environment that's on the bleeding edge of software, hardware, and physics and hardly anyone actually knows everything in their subject area off hand, but "I can ask someone else, or do some reading and get back to you" is not an uncommon phrase here. There's a huge difference between not being able to understand something (via referencing external sources) and being able to answer an arbitrary question about it from memory.

henning 5y ago

You don't know what people are actually going through without gathering more information. Maybe they are in the wrong job or field, maybe their coworkers are just jerks and they have insecurity due to how poeple have treated them in the past. Constructing strawmen like this is easy and not insightful.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

ineedasername 5y ago

This fails to acknowledge the fact that imposter syndrome is generally an irrational belief and often coexists with others forms of mental health issues. This means that (while I'm sure it's part of a humble brag sometimes) that admitting to this feeling while following up with evidence to the contrary fits squarely with the fact that it's an irrational belief. It's one that is held despite counter evidence that the individual may be fully aware of. Try telling someone with OCD that they don't need to check the door lock for the 4th time. They remember checking it 5 seconds earlier, and 5 before that. It's not about evidence. As such, this article says very little about the people the author makes fun of but a whole lot about the author's ignorance on the topic.

JadeNB 5y ago

"Everyone else can successfully fake feeling like an imposter, but I can't …."

blitzar 5y ago

noun: imposter syndrome the persistent inability to believe that one's success is deserved or has been legitimately achieved as a result of one's own efforts or skills. I am not sure the author and I share the same definition of the subject of the piece.

Tzela 5y ago

This article makes me furious. What does the author want to tell us? That everyone who feels like an imposter, and talks about it, is an arrogant arse that only wants to brag? Maybe he is and all the people he meets are. But me as well as many of my close friends (none of them arrogant, I assure you) do feel like an imposter at their specific jobs from time to time. It's a thing that holds us back, a personal insecurity that we just carry around. We have learned to live with it and accept it as just something completely normal, especially because we talked about it.

paulmooreparks 5y ago
The answer is in the top-right corner of the page: NSFW a humorous look
- gjulianm 5y ago
  I don't find the humor in diminishing a non-trivial mental health issue and making fun of the people suffering from it, and I don't think I'm alone in that.
- Tzela 5y ago
  Ah, I see, oh so funny. haha. /s

humansuit 5y ago

Sooo no way to win here, according to this edgy take. This philosophy, where any expression of stress is just a ploy, seems like a great way to prevent people from reaching out to each other for help with the psychological pressures of intense work environments, thus making it all worse.