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Credit where credit is due: this is a rarely good release. Cynical me has observed this annual pattern where Apple just before their developer conference sudde

by fleddr 5y ago

Credit where credit is due: this is a rarely good release. Cynical me has observed this annual pattern where Apple just before their developer conference suddenly becomes "genuinely" interested in the web community and actively listens to feedback. Then, things get back to normal, which means they don't implement anything, all feedback goes to /dev/null, documentation is lacking and bugs are never solved. It's hard to get past this cynical angle because even in this release they're boasting about how they're "first" to implement something, whilst it remains to be the browser lagging years behind. Typical Apple, fluffy marketing with zero self-reflection. I did see there's lots of webkit vacancies at Apple now, so one can hope things are changing for the better. Probably because it looks better to regulators.

Jcowell 5y ago
> Cynical me has observed this annual pattern where Apple just before their developer conference suddenly becomes "genuinely" interested in the web community and actively listens to feedback. Then, things get back to normal, which means they don't implement anything, all feedback goes to /dev/null, documentation is lacking and bugs are never solved. This doesn’t make sense to me. Features takes time to discuss, roadmap, argue , implement, test, and ship. These things aren’t something you just ramp up just before their developer conference. I would be furious if I were a WebKit developer and told I don’t implement anything or take feedback all year up until a Yearly conference. Especially when Safari updated 7 times last year alone.
- fleddr 5y ago
  None of this is aimed at any individual Webkit developer. The state of Safari (stagnation and underinvestment) is on Apple, not on the team. Apple not taking feedback or taking it and it being completely pointless is well documented behavior. This guy... https://firt.dev/ https://firt.dev/ ...has basically been doing Apple's job for ages. Testing releases, documenting endless bugs, providing feedback, usually leading to absolutely nothing at all. Recently, he kept score from what was actually handled based on last year's feedback. It was close to nothing. Which is business as usual, it's like talking to a brick wall. Things couldn't be more dramatically different with the Chrome team. When I register a bug there, I get feedback within hours. They will scrutinize it immediately and confirm if its reproducible or not. They will indicate if its per spec or not, refer to discussions and assign it to a group/member when it's a valid bug. If it's anything remotely serious, it's often solved within 2 releases, so within 12 weeks. Further, one can directly interact with the Chrome team on Twitter and I regularly have long email conversations with them by personal email. They are accessible and take your feedback serious. Apple is the exact opposite. As for Safari updates, they're usually meh. Small list of bug fixes and some web inspector improvements. Hence my remark that this is an unusually valuable release.

by fleddr 5y ago

Jcowell 5y ago

> Cynical me has observed this annual pattern where Apple just before their developer conference suddenly becomes "genuinely" interested in the web community and actively listens to feedback. Then, things get back to normal, which means they don't implement anything, all feedback goes to /dev/null, documentation is lacking and bugs are never solved. This doesn’t make sense to me. Features takes time to discuss, roadmap, argue , implement, test, and ship. These things aren’t something you just ramp up just before their developer conference. I would be furious if I were a WebKit developer and told I don’t implement anything or take feedback all year up until a Yearly conference. Especially when Safari updated 7 times last year alone.

fleddr 5y ago
None of this is aimed at any individual Webkit developer. The state of Safari (stagnation and underinvestment) is on Apple, not on the team. Apple not taking feedback or taking it and it being completely pointless is well documented behavior. This guy... https://firt.dev/ https://firt.dev/ ...has basically been doing Apple's job for ages. Testing releases, documenting endless bugs, providing feedback, usually leading to absolutely nothing at all. Recently, he kept score from what was actually handled based on last year's feedback. It was close to nothing. Which is business as usual, it's like talking to a brick wall. Things couldn't be more dramatically different with the Chrome team. When I register a bug there, I get feedback within hours. They will scrutinize it immediately and confirm if its reproducible or not. They will indicate if its per spec or not, refer to discussions and assign it to a group/member when it's a valid bug. If it's anything remotely serious, it's often solved within 2 releases, so within 12 weeks. Further, one can directly interact with the Chrome team on Twitter and I regularly have long email conversations with them by personal email. They are accessible and take your feedback serious. Apple is the exact opposite. As for Safari updates, they're usually meh. Small list of bug fixes and some web inspector improvements. Hence my remark that this is an unusually valuable release.