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> With no authority that decides whether I can send money to/receive from someone. That’s actually a good point and Bitcoin/crypto solves this. Why doesn’t it

> With no authority that decides whether I can send money to/receive from someone. That’s actually a good point and Bitcoin/crypto solves this. Why doesn’t it stop there though, what does web3 solve?

rich_sasha 5y ago
Only somewhat I think; miners actually do have such control, and could be coerced into sanctions; it's just that no one has successfully done that (or kept quiet about it). You can imagine outlawing processing some crypto transactions in some area. Miners have no choice but to comply, leading to at least a fork and massive confusion, at most to actual enforcement of the rule. Blockchains may be censorship-resistant, but humans are not rubber hose resistant.
- miracle2k 5y ago
  > You can imagine outlawing processing some crypto transactions in some area. Miners have no choice but to comply, leading to at least a fork and massive confusion, at most to actual enforcement of the rule. It is not a geo-location issue. The enforcement measures in question either manage to control 50% of the hashrate or they don't. If they don't, the protocol will ignore their censorship. Yes, they could continue mining a minority fork chain, but you would need to convince Bitcoin-users and services to use the fork instead of the uncensored version. You could imagine this being done by force: ISPs block the download of the software, exchanges no longer trade it etc. The point is merely: <50%, the power is not with the miners at all; it is the users that need to be controlled.
  - rich_sasha 5y ago
    Since China ban, 35% of mining happens on US soils: https://www.visualcapitalist.com/after-chinas-crypto-ban-who-leads-in-bitcoin-mining/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/after-chinas-crypto-ban-who... Not so far off 50+eps
falcolas 5y ago
> That’s actually a good point and Bitcoin/crypto solves this. For now. Governments are catching on, and since the transactions are public, they can (and are putting the building blocks in place now) easily apply the same regulations to international bitcoin transactions as they do traditional money transfers. Basically, folks today are taking advantage of a blind spot in government oversight. They're aware of it and are removing that blind spot. I heard an analogy at one point - governments are elephants. It's usually pretty easy to avoid being stomped on when you're small. But if you do get stomped on, you'll be utterly destroyed. Many governments have no problems with making examples of people.
- samsonradu 5y ago
  Yes, that’s true but for the sake of the argument lets say it solves that problem. What do web3 and NFTs solve?
  - falcolas 5y ago
    IMO, nothing. NFTs are already centralized and primarily used as scams. If your non-scam NFT is blocked by OpenSea, it might as well not exist for the purposes of selling and re-selling. Where NFTs are not used for scams, they're being implemented in a proprietary blockchain and used as a method of extracting more money from customers with no new benefits (it's not like customers can re-sell their NFTs; see: proprietary blockchain). The only thing I potentially see as valuable from web3 is cryptographic customer identification - but this is something we've had for years (client certs), but which never took off. I don't see how "web3" will change that.
    - can16358p 5y ago
      I work for several NFT art projects. None of them are scams. I know many people who work on other NFT projects which aren't scam as well. They are all on public blockchains, perfectly functional with relatively healthy communities. I think you are cherry picking the scam projects by using the word "primarily". We hate scam projects just as much as you do, they damage the reputation and trust of whole ecosystem.

rich_sasha 5y ago

Only somewhat I think; miners actually do have such control, and could be coerced into sanctions; it's just that no one has successfully done that (or kept quiet about it). You can imagine outlawing processing some crypto transactions in some area. Miners have no choice but to comply, leading to at least a fork and massive confusion, at most to actual enforcement of the rule. Blockchains may be censorship-resistant, but humans are not rubber hose resistant.

miracle2k 5y ago
> You can imagine outlawing processing some crypto transactions in some area. Miners have no choice but to comply, leading to at least a fork and massive confusion, at most to actual enforcement of the rule. It is not a geo-location issue. The enforcement measures in question either manage to control 50% of the hashrate or they don't. If they don't, the protocol will ignore their censorship. Yes, they could continue mining a minority fork chain, but you would need to convince Bitcoin-users and services to use the fork instead of the uncensored version. You could imagine this being done by force: ISPs block the download of the software, exchanges no longer trade it etc. The point is merely: <50%, the power is not with the miners at all; it is the users that need to be controlled.
- rich_sasha 5y ago
  Since China ban, 35% of mining happens on US soils: https://www.visualcapitalist.com/after-chinas-crypto-ban-who-leads-in-bitcoin-mining/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/after-chinas-crypto-ban-who... Not so far off 50+eps

falcolas 5y ago

> That’s actually a good point and Bitcoin/crypto solves this. For now. Governments are catching on, and since the transactions are public, they can (and are putting the building blocks in place now) easily apply the same regulations to international bitcoin transactions as they do traditional money transfers. Basically, folks today are taking advantage of a blind spot in government oversight. They're aware of it and are removing that blind spot. I heard an analogy at one point - governments are elephants. It's usually pretty easy to avoid being stomped on when you're small. But if you do get stomped on, you'll be utterly destroyed. Many governments have no problems with making examples of people.

samsonradu 5y ago
Yes, that’s true but for the sake of the argument lets say it solves that problem. What do web3 and NFTs solve?
- falcolas 5y ago
  IMO, nothing. NFTs are already centralized and primarily used as scams. If your non-scam NFT is blocked by OpenSea, it might as well not exist for the purposes of selling and re-selling. Where NFTs are not used for scams, they're being implemented in a proprietary blockchain and used as a method of extracting more money from customers with no new benefits (it's not like customers can re-sell their NFTs; see: proprietary blockchain). The only thing I potentially see as valuable from web3 is cryptographic customer identification - but this is something we've had for years (client certs), but which never took off. I don't see how "web3" will change that.
  - can16358p 5y ago
    I work for several NFT art projects. None of them are scams. I know many people who work on other NFT projects which aren't scam as well. They are all on public blockchains, perfectly functional with relatively healthy communities. I think you are cherry picking the scam projects by using the word "primarily". We hate scam projects just as much as you do, they damage the reputation and trust of whole ecosystem.