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I've always been fascinated by psychogeography, but I feel like I might be too dim to really grasp it. It always feels like a particularly abstract, intellectua

I've always been fascinated by psychogeography, but I feel like I might be too dim to really grasp it. It always feels like a particularly abstract, intellectual thing that people who (appear to be) much smarter than me seem to understand but which I cannot.

lqet 5y ago
Hm, after reading the Wikipedia article on psychogeography, I am not sure whether it is satire: > Psychogeography is the exploration of urban environments that emphasizes interpersonal connections to places and arbitrary routes, and follows a loosely defined urban practice known as the dérive. It was developed by members of the Letterist International and Situationist International, which were revolutionary groups influenced by Marxist and anarchist theory as well as the attitudes and methods of Dadaists and Surrealists. In 1955, Guy Debord defined psychogeography as "the study of the precise laws and specific effects of the geographical environment, consciously organized or not, on the emotions and behavior of individuals." > The first published discussion of psychogeography was in the Lettrist journal Potlatch (1954), which included a 'Psychogeographical Game of the Week': Depending on what you are after, choose an area, a more or less populous city, a more or less lively street. Build a house. Furnish it. Make the most of its decoration and surroundings. Choose the season and the time. Gather together the right people, the best records and drinks. Lighting and conversation must, of course, be appropriate, along with the weather and your memories. If your calculations are correct, you should find the outcome satisfying.
- dkdbejwi383 5y ago
  I'm still not convinced it's an actual thing, and not just a pretentious way to say "going for a walk"
- anon_123g987 5y ago
  If satire, it's hilarious. If not, it's ridiculous. The same people will take it seriously either way, so there's not much difference.
- xboxnolifes 5y ago
  The first published discussion sounds like satire (or a hyperbolized example), but the description given by Guy Debord seems pretty straight forward to me. If I were try to put it even simpler, I would define it as: "Psychogeography is the study of why people enjoy, or behave in certain ways in, certain surroundings over others". That being said, the fact that Debord claims both that psychogeography is the study of "precise laws" and that psychogeography is "charmingly vague", seems conflicting.
chippy 5y ago
It's basically vaguely defined, and it can be anything from making a map of your area, basic geography, "the feeling you get in a place" to an impenetrable academic critical kind of study to a kind of radical situationist thing. So a lot of it is intentionally elitist and obscure. This example is more along the lines of whats called "Walking Art" so it's more about practice outside by artists, and tends to be less art-speaky and is more approachable but with a fair bit of radical influence. Back to definitions, Denis Wood says it's basically two types (geography vs politics) https://krygier.owu.edu/krygier_html/geog_222/geog_222_lo/Lynch_Debord_Carto.45.3.003.pdf https://krygier.owu.edu/krygier_html/geog_222/geog_222_lo/Ly...
- MrNosy 5y ago
  Vaguely defined is a good description. I view it like music- people have always done some version of it, but it hasn't always had a name .
edent 5y ago
Here's the way I understand it. Geography - there is a hill. History - there is a castle on the hill. Psychogeography - how does it feel to have an imposing castle looking down on everything you do? In what ways does the geography - and built environment - affect your mood, behaviours, and practises? Do you intentionally walk a certain route so you won't be seen from the castle? Some of it is abstract - and deliberately so - and some of it is asking you to reflect on the way geography alters you and your behaviours.
gumby 5y ago
> a particularly abstract, intellectual thing that people who (appear to be) much smarter than me seem to understand but which I cannot. It’s not a “smarts” thing, but it is highly contextual. European philosophy went in an interesting (and often derided) direction in the 20th century. You can trace a line from 13th century scholars of hermeneutics up through Heidegger and Wittgenstein— smart folks! — and then, in the US, to people like Quine. In Europe this also lead to approaches like deconstructionism (let me gloss it as “wait, can a text exist without context?”, which is almost the precise opposite of those hermeneuticists of 900 years ago). These classes of questions were then applied to everyday culture and phenomena, which were often not the subject of study, e.g. thus semiotics. This is actually a really interesting field, because it causes you to revisit things that are so ubiquitous that you don’t look at them at all! For example, “land”, is generally the space between the roads, yet roads used to run through the land. Big deal…or not? Are there implications of this shift in perspective or is it merely just one of those things? Of course the problem is it’s really easy to do a lazy job on these hard but not really quantifiable questions and thus it became the darling of a lot of humanities departments, leading to a kind of Gresham’s law phenomenon. The flood of fatuous and obscurantist work has condemned the whole field to well deserved mockery. But a bit of study can unlock a lot of interesting insight. I say “a bit of study” because easily 95% of the “work” in this field is crap. And at the end of the day it’s nowhere near as hard (or significant) as, say, quantum mechanics.
MrNosy 5y ago
It can be a very intellectual pursuit, in which you have to re read every sentence three times to understand it . I enjoy that some of the time, but for me the wonder of psychogeography has been the experience and feeling of actually doing it. Playfulness - and something somewhere in between mindfulness and mindlessness. The first time I did it I took my kids to the bus station, they chose a letter and we got on the first bus that went from that stand, then tried to find some random way to determine when to get off - but the dog was sick so she made the choice for us, then we got off and wandered. These days I like to take a walk following coded sentences which I make up. The sentence determines the directions I take on the walk , so I can't plan, which pulls me into the moment.

lqet 5y ago

Hm, after reading the Wikipedia article on psychogeography, I am not sure whether it is satire: > Psychogeography is the exploration of urban environments that emphasizes interpersonal connections to places and arbitrary routes, and follows a loosely defined urban practice known as the dérive. It was developed by members of the Letterist International and Situationist International, which were revolutionary groups influenced by Marxist and anarchist theory as well as the attitudes and methods of Dadaists and Surrealists. In 1955, Guy Debord defined psychogeography as "the study of the precise laws and specific effects of the geographical environment, consciously organized or not, on the emotions and behavior of individuals." > The first published discussion of psychogeography was in the Lettrist journal Potlatch (1954), which included a 'Psychogeographical Game of the Week': Depending on what you are after, choose an area, a more or less populous city, a more or less lively street. Build a house. Furnish it. Make the most of its decoration and surroundings. Choose the season and the time. Gather together the right people, the best records and drinks. Lighting and conversation must, of course, be appropriate, along with the weather and your memories. If your calculations are correct, you should find the outcome satisfying.

dkdbejwi383 5y ago
I'm still not convinced it's an actual thing, and not just a pretentious way to say "going for a walk"
anon_123g987 5y ago
If satire, it's hilarious. If not, it's ridiculous. The same people will take it seriously either way, so there's not much difference.
xboxnolifes 5y ago
The first published discussion sounds like satire (or a hyperbolized example), but the description given by Guy Debord seems pretty straight forward to me. If I were try to put it even simpler, I would define it as: "Psychogeography is the study of why people enjoy, or behave in certain ways in, certain surroundings over others". That being said, the fact that Debord claims both that psychogeography is the study of "precise laws" and that psychogeography is "charmingly vague", seems conflicting.

chippy 5y ago

It's basically vaguely defined, and it can be anything from making a map of your area, basic geography, "the feeling you get in a place" to an impenetrable academic critical kind of study to a kind of radical situationist thing. So a lot of it is intentionally elitist and obscure. This example is more along the lines of whats called "Walking Art" so it's more about practice outside by artists, and tends to be less art-speaky and is more approachable but with a fair bit of radical influence. Back to definitions, Denis Wood says it's basically two types (geography vs politics) https://krygier.owu.edu/krygier_html/geog_222/geog_222_lo/Lynch_Debord_Carto.45.3.003.pdf https://krygier.owu.edu/krygier_html/geog_222/geog_222_lo/Ly...

MrNosy 5y ago
Vaguely defined is a good description. I view it like music- people have always done some version of it, but it hasn't always had a name .

edent 5y ago

Here's the way I understand it. Geography - there is a hill. History - there is a castle on the hill. Psychogeography - how does it feel to have an imposing castle looking down on everything you do? In what ways does the geography - and built environment - affect your mood, behaviours, and practises? Do you intentionally walk a certain route so you won't be seen from the castle? Some of it is abstract - and deliberately so - and some of it is asking you to reflect on the way geography alters you and your behaviours.

gumby 5y ago

> a particularly abstract, intellectual thing that people who (appear to be) much smarter than me seem to understand but which I cannot. It’s not a “smarts” thing, but it is highly contextual. European philosophy went in an interesting (and often derided) direction in the 20th century. You can trace a line from 13th century scholars of hermeneutics up through Heidegger and Wittgenstein— smart folks! — and then, in the US, to people like Quine. In Europe this also lead to approaches like deconstructionism (let me gloss it as “wait, can a text exist without context?”, which is almost the precise opposite of those hermeneuticists of 900 years ago). These classes of questions were then applied to everyday culture and phenomena, which were often not the subject of study, e.g. thus semiotics. This is actually a really interesting field, because it causes you to revisit things that are so ubiquitous that you don’t look at them at all! For example, “land”, is generally the space between the roads, yet roads used to run through the land. Big deal…or not? Are there implications of this shift in perspective or is it merely just one of those things? Of course the problem is it’s really easy to do a lazy job on these hard but not really quantifiable questions and thus it became the darling of a lot of humanities departments, leading to a kind of Gresham’s law phenomenon. The flood of fatuous and obscurantist work has condemned the whole field to well deserved mockery. But a bit of study can unlock a lot of interesting insight. I say “a bit of study” because easily 95% of the “work” in this field is crap. And at the end of the day it’s nowhere near as hard (or significant) as, say, quantum mechanics.

MrNosy 5y ago

It can be a very intellectual pursuit, in which you have to re read every sentence three times to understand it . I enjoy that some of the time, but for me the wonder of psychogeography has been the experience and feeling of actually doing it. Playfulness - and something somewhere in between mindfulness and mindlessness. The first time I did it I took my kids to the bus station, they chose a letter and we got on the first bus that went from that stand, then tried to find some random way to determine when to get off - but the dog was sick so she made the choice for us, then we got off and wandered. These days I like to take a walk following coded sentences which I make up. The sentence determines the directions I take on the walk , so I can't plan, which pulls me into the moment.