6 ms·

Maybe more expensive up front but probably cheaper in the long run!

swagasaurus-rex 5y ago
If I could buy products that just work and don’t break, even if they cost 3x as much, they would pay for themselves with longer lifespans and less wasted productivity.
- andi999 5y ago
  Historically you shd buy Miele then.
  - Schiendelman 5y ago
    For some products. Even they have some crap (in-wall espresso…)
  - Tor3 5y ago
    I replaced my 21 year old Miele washing machine recently. The solenoid-driven water intake valve broke. It wasn't a part of the machine itself, it was on the water intake tube. But the replacement part was nearly half the price of the brand new replacement Miele washing machine I ended up buying instead. The new one is slightly larger and has higher capacity, and doesn't suffer from a little design problem the original had, so I was ok with getting a new one. But yes, the original washing machine worked exactly as when it was brand new - it was just that intake valve on the tube.
    - jeffreygoesto 5y ago
      Ha. I just recently cleaned all hoses of our 10 year old one (all were quite ok to reach) and hope to have it another 10 years.
  - CRConrad 5y ago
    Yeah, "historically"... But not any more.
    - andi999 5y ago
      Past performance is unfortunately not a safe marker for future performance.
dotancohen 5y ago
Just like a quality automobile, to bring the discussion closer to the article. For example, a Tesla Model 3 might cost more than a Hyundai I10, but after three years of ownership you've not had to change the oil, fill it with gas, get the tailpipe emissions inspected, possibly see the catalytic converter stolen, etc. And the difference in maintenance only grows from there, when the plugs and timing belt and seals and transmission and other items wear. Lots of products have more expensive buy-in buy are cheaper in the long run.
- nly 5y ago
  My partner leases a petrol car, and except for pumping up the tyres every now and then we've never done anything to it. Servicing is fully covered and the garage keeps track of when things need changing. It wasn't so long ago that leasing was actually cheaper option than buying (on credit).
  - dotancohen 5y ago
    Even if you're not paying for the service, you still need to take the time to do it or get it done for you.
- JoachimSchipper 5y ago
  Ehm, doesn’t Tesla have famously bad quality control in several areas, e.g. fit of body panels? EVs, as a category, need less maintenance - but Tesla’s are not an example of a trouble-free product! (They are legitimately cool though!)
  - kreddor 5y ago
    Also, I've driven a Hyundai i10 for the last 10 years and it's been very reliable. Maybe because I don't drive that much to begin with, but still.
  - dotancohen 5y ago
    Sure, the early Model 3's had body panel fit problems. I actually bought one last week, and the fit is amazing, both interior and exterior. I don't know why that point keeps coming up. For what it's worth, I used to be a tech at a Ford dealer, so I know what bad fitment looks like!
bjoli 5y ago
I have two things in my possession that are wonders of engineering. One hair trimmer and one restaurant kitchen blender/kitchen multifunction machine. Both made in 1987 in East Germany. The blender I bought second hand, and it came with a box of original replacement parts and specifications so detailed that I believe I could probably replace the motor if it ever fails (almost 6hp! Take that, Vitamix!). It makes nut butter in no time. The trimmer could probably be used to cut down trees. I love these machines, and if they ever fail I don't thing I could ever replace them with anything of similar quality. They are 35 years old. The electronics in the kitchen machine still look pristine. I keep all bearings well lubed. It runs like a Swiss watch. Only very loud.
- dijit 5y ago
  is this not the very definition of survivorship bias though? I have things from the 80s that, obviously, have lasted a long time. But I have owned things from that era that have failed and been forgotten about. Incidentally I bought some boots this year that are expected to last (at a minimum) 10 years, and I suspect they would, but I can't know that until 10 years from now. Heirloom quality is probably still a thing, but only discoverable when an item actually becomes an heirloom.
  - bjoli 5y ago
    Probably. I don't have ten of these machines, so it is hard to make a general statement. I mostly meant it as a comment on what the parent said; I could pay four times the price for something and have it last 35 years (which is 15x longer than the blender I had before it) I gladly would. The fact that I can repair most of it is also a thing I miss in the things I buy today.
  - PinguTS 5y ago
    The above author mentions that these machines are from Eastern Germany. As I am from Eastern Germany myself, I can tell you that we had regulations in place, that machines had to last and had to be repairable. Those regulations came into place, because we had heavily resource problems. Funfact: Those type of regulations are heavily discussed even these times again, when I look at EU right to be repair, or the discussions specifically around John Deere and the right to be repair.

If I could buy products that just work and don’t break, even if they cost 3x as much, they would pay for themselves with longer lifespans and less wasted productivity.

andi999 5y ago
Historically you shd buy Miele then.
- Schiendelman 5y ago
  For some products. Even they have some crap (in-wall espresso…)
- Tor3 5y ago
  I replaced my 21 year old Miele washing machine recently. The solenoid-driven water intake valve broke. It wasn't a part of the machine itself, it was on the water intake tube. But the replacement part was nearly half the price of the brand new replacement Miele washing machine I ended up buying instead. The new one is slightly larger and has higher capacity, and doesn't suffer from a little design problem the original had, so I was ok with getting a new one. But yes, the original washing machine worked exactly as when it was brand new - it was just that intake valve on the tube.
  - jeffreygoesto 5y ago
    Ha. I just recently cleaned all hoses of our 10 year old one (all were quite ok to reach) and hope to have it another 10 years.
- CRConrad 5y ago
  Yeah, "historically"... But not any more.
  - andi999 5y ago
    Past performance is unfortunately not a safe marker for future performance.

dotancohen 5y ago

Just like a quality automobile, to bring the discussion closer to the article. For example, a Tesla Model 3 might cost more than a Hyundai I10, but after three years of ownership you've not had to change the oil, fill it with gas, get the tailpipe emissions inspected, possibly see the catalytic converter stolen, etc. And the difference in maintenance only grows from there, when the plugs and timing belt and seals and transmission and other items wear. Lots of products have more expensive buy-in buy are cheaper in the long run.

nly 5y ago
My partner leases a petrol car, and except for pumping up the tyres every now and then we've never done anything to it. Servicing is fully covered and the garage keeps track of when things need changing. It wasn't so long ago that leasing was actually cheaper option than buying (on credit).
- dotancohen 5y ago
  Even if you're not paying for the service, you still need to take the time to do it or get it done for you.
JoachimSchipper 5y ago
Ehm, doesn’t Tesla have famously bad quality control in several areas, e.g. fit of body panels? EVs, as a category, need less maintenance - but Tesla’s are not an example of a trouble-free product! (They are legitimately cool though!)
- kreddor 5y ago
  Also, I've driven a Hyundai i10 for the last 10 years and it's been very reliable. Maybe because I don't drive that much to begin with, but still.
- dotancohen 5y ago
  Sure, the early Model 3's had body panel fit problems. I actually bought one last week, and the fit is amazing, both interior and exterior. I don't know why that point keeps coming up. For what it's worth, I used to be a tech at a Ford dealer, so I know what bad fitment looks like!

bjoli 5y ago

I have two things in my possession that are wonders of engineering. One hair trimmer and one restaurant kitchen blender/kitchen multifunction machine. Both made in 1987 in East Germany. The blender I bought second hand, and it came with a box of original replacement parts and specifications so detailed that I believe I could probably replace the motor if it ever fails (almost 6hp! Take that, Vitamix!). It makes nut butter in no time. The trimmer could probably be used to cut down trees. I love these machines, and if they ever fail I don't thing I could ever replace them with anything of similar quality. They are 35 years old. The electronics in the kitchen machine still look pristine. I keep all bearings well lubed. It runs like a Swiss watch. Only very loud.

dijit 5y ago
is this not the very definition of survivorship bias though? I have things from the 80s that, obviously, have lasted a long time. But I have owned things from that era that have failed and been forgotten about. Incidentally I bought some boots this year that are expected to last (at a minimum) 10 years, and I suspect they would, but I can't know that until 10 years from now. Heirloom quality is probably still a thing, but only discoverable when an item actually becomes an heirloom.
- bjoli 5y ago
  Probably. I don't have ten of these machines, so it is hard to make a general statement. I mostly meant it as a comment on what the parent said; I could pay four times the price for something and have it last 35 years (which is 15x longer than the blender I had before it) I gladly would. The fact that I can repair most of it is also a thing I miss in the things I buy today.
- PinguTS 5y ago
  The above author mentions that these machines are from Eastern Germany. As I am from Eastern Germany myself, I can tell you that we had regulations in place, that machines had to last and had to be repairable. Those regulations came into place, because we had heavily resource problems. Funfact: Those type of regulations are heavily discussed even these times again, when I look at EU right to be repair, or the discussions specifically around John Deere and the right to be repair.