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Imagine if someone came on TV like this during the second gulf war and said "They're lying to you about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq" Would anyone even

Imagine if someone came on TV like this during the second gulf war and said "They're lying to you about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq" Would anyone even care? Some cynical people at the time would say, "sure they're lying." Lots of people would be like, "She's totally brainwashed, blah, blah." The whole thing would then be forgotten in two days and the war would go on as usual.

iamthemonster 5y ago
In the UK I don't recall the public truly believing that Iraq actually had "weapons of mass destruction". The press had been calling the intelligence report the "Dodgy Dossier" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Dossier https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Dossier and I recall wide doubt on the famous phrasing of weapons being "launched within 45 minutes" https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2004/feb/05/iraq.iraq1 https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2004/feb/05/iraq.iraq1 which it turns out referred to... conventional battle munitions like mortars. It was an absolute shit show of lies that nobody really believed. A million people protested https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/15_February_2003_anti-war_protests https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/15_February_2003_anti-war_pr... And still, the war went on as usual. Even if 90% of Russians protested against the invasion of Ukraine I couldn't be sure it would make a difference. As it is, most Russians don't even see this as a war, just a continuation of the ongoing Donbass conflict.
- tim333 5y ago
  My recollection as an average UK member of the public was the news said 'allegations of WMDs' so I thought well maybe, then 'Hans Blix is investigating' so I thought fair enough and then 'UK and US forces have invaded without waiting for Blix'. So yeah not much you could do about it. It's probably similar for the Russian public.
- ptnxlo 5y ago
  90% of 140 millions of inhabitants is certainly a big number. Your example is quite extreme and might reflect that the country is completely out of context.
rich_sasha 5y ago
The said person wouldn’t be facing 15 years in prison. And mind you, prisons aren’t made equal. Russian ones are on the tough end of the scale.
marviio 5y ago
This is such a false analogy. I heard hundreds of dissenting voices on the streets and in the media all over the world (and in the US) during the Iraqi war, the attack on Serbia, the attack on Libya.
- glandium 5y ago
  That didn't stop those wars, did it?
  - krapp 5y ago
    That's moving the goalposts. The inference made by narrator was that the vast majority of Americans supported the Iraq war and any resistance to it was incidental, dismissed and quickly forgotten, that something like the protest incident in OP couldn't happen in the US. That plays easily into the common narrative of Americans being bloodthirsty or brainwashed by their media but it simply isn't correct. There definitely was a period after 9/11 when any criticism of the government or war against Afghanistan and Iraq was seen as unpatriotic, the Dixie Chicks were cancelled, French fries became Freedom fries, and propaganda like Courtesy of the Red White and Blue became hits. But the US is more complex than many people give it credit for, and there were also protests in the streets and criticism within the media, even people going to Iraq to serve as human shields[0] against their own military. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shield_action_to_Iraq https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shield_action_to_Iraq
- ttyprintk 5y ago
  Moreover, Ukraine did not invade its neighbors decades ago. It gave up wmds rather than accumulate them. Saddam did have and use wmds, and professed to seeking more. Dissenting voices had to ask us to trust Saddam Hussein.
deleted 5y ago
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iamthemonster 5y ago

In the UK I don't recall the public truly believing that Iraq actually had "weapons of mass destruction". The press had been calling the intelligence report the "Dodgy Dossier" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Dossier https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Dossier and I recall wide doubt on the famous phrasing of weapons being "launched within 45 minutes" https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2004/feb/05/iraq.iraq1 https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2004/feb/05/iraq.iraq1 which it turns out referred to... conventional battle munitions like mortars. It was an absolute shit show of lies that nobody really believed. A million people protested https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/15_February_2003_anti-war_protests https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/15_February_2003_anti-war_pr... And still, the war went on as usual. Even if 90% of Russians protested against the invasion of Ukraine I couldn't be sure it would make a difference. As it is, most Russians don't even see this as a war, just a continuation of the ongoing Donbass conflict.

tim333 5y ago
My recollection as an average UK member of the public was the news said 'allegations of WMDs' so I thought well maybe, then 'Hans Blix is investigating' so I thought fair enough and then 'UK and US forces have invaded without waiting for Blix'. So yeah not much you could do about it. It's probably similar for the Russian public.
ptnxlo 5y ago
90% of 140 millions of inhabitants is certainly a big number. Your example is quite extreme and might reflect that the country is completely out of context.

rich_sasha 5y ago

The said person wouldn’t be facing 15 years in prison. And mind you, prisons aren’t made equal. Russian ones are on the tough end of the scale.

marviio 5y ago

This is such a false analogy. I heard hundreds of dissenting voices on the streets and in the media all over the world (and in the US) during the Iraqi war, the attack on Serbia, the attack on Libya.

glandium 5y ago
That didn't stop those wars, did it?
- krapp 5y ago
  That's moving the goalposts. The inference made by narrator was that the vast majority of Americans supported the Iraq war and any resistance to it was incidental, dismissed and quickly forgotten, that something like the protest incident in OP couldn't happen in the US. That plays easily into the common narrative of Americans being bloodthirsty or brainwashed by their media but it simply isn't correct. There definitely was a period after 9/11 when any criticism of the government or war against Afghanistan and Iraq was seen as unpatriotic, the Dixie Chicks were cancelled, French fries became Freedom fries, and propaganda like Courtesy of the Red White and Blue became hits. But the US is more complex than many people give it credit for, and there were also protests in the streets and criticism within the media, even people going to Iraq to serve as human shields[0] against their own military. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shield_action_to_Iraq https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shield_action_to_Iraq
ttyprintk 5y ago
Moreover, Ukraine did not invade its neighbors decades ago. It gave up wmds rather than accumulate them. Saddam did have and use wmds, and professed to seeking more. Dissenting voices had to ask us to trust Saddam Hussein.

deleted 5y ago

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